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Office of Treaties and Alliances
Topic Started: Jul 2 2013, 07:20:55 PM (3,721 Views)
A mean old man
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The Office of Treaties and Alliances

This Office will be comprised of the Delegate, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and appointed Advisors. Relevant to any proposal, Ambassadors are invited here as well, depending on the involved regions.

Delegate: Bachtendekuppen
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Old Federalia
Ministerial Advisor on Treaty Affairs:
Ministerial Advisor on Treaty Affairs:

The involved officials and Ambassadors will negotiate, draft and edit the treaties and alliances at hand, either proposed by foreign regions or from The East Pacific itself. When finished, said proposals will be introduced to the Magisterium.


Edited by Bachtendekuppen - 15/11/13
Previous version
Edited by Bachtendekuppen, Nov 15 2013, 10:07:41 AM.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
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A mean old man
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I would like to invite Ramaeus, East Malaysia, and A Slanted Black Stripe to join me in this Ministry.

EDIT: There are others who I feel are also appropriate for this Ministry and I may expand it in the future to invite and include them.
Edited by A mean old man, Jul 2 2013, 07:23:59 PM.
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southern bellz
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The South Pacific would like to propose the following (still has to be voted on by the Assembly before ratified)

Quote:
 
Treaty between The South Pacific and The East Pacific
Wishing to strengthen our regional ties, and recognizing our commonalities as free and friendly pacific regions, we join together in an alliance of friendship and mutual defense.

[*]The parties to this treaty are The East Pacific and The South Pacific.
[*]The parties will recognize the constitutional governments in force at the time of ratification of this treaty as the sole legitimate governments of their respective regions.
[*]The parties will not undermine one another through subterfuge, espionage, invasion, or any other means.
[*]The parties will defend one another to the best of their ability on the request of the other party.
[*]The parties will share any intelligence relevant to the defense of the other party.
[*]A new treaty between the parties may override this treaty.
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A mean old man
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As soon as the Ministry is staffed we will begin discussing this treaty. I personally see no issues with this as it stands. Short and sweet.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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What stripe?
As long as there is no conflict between serving as a Minister and a Magister, I am glad to serve in this role.
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A mean old man
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Magisters have served as ambassadors in the past, and I don't believe the Concordat or legal code says anything about such positions, despite their role in the executive branch. We could ask the Conclave for clarification.
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Bachtendekuppen
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Probably best to ask the Conclave, it's what they are for and it's certainly not clear.
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Dernovia
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You got blood on my Suit.
yeah, I mean I could make an ambassador if you guys want me too, I'm happy to help. Oh conclave please clarify this...
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Aelitia
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Dernovia
Jul 3 2013, 04:40:45 PM
yeah, I mean I could make an ambassador if you guys want me too, I'm happy to help. Oh conclave please clarify this...
As far as I understand it, we are to no longer have Ambassadors of TEP. Between the Delegate and the new Ministry with all the fancy new Ministers, we should be all covered. :P


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East Malaysia
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I like reviewing, not writing things. Is that bad? Lol.

Nonetheless format is not what matters because final drafts can easily be fixed by other people ;P

I'll accept.
Edited by East Malaysia, Jul 4 2013, 01:27:46 AM.
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A mean old man
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Aelitia
Jul 3 2013, 07:03:31 PM
Dernovia
Jul 3 2013, 04:40:45 PM
yeah, I mean I could make an ambassador if you guys want me too, I'm happy to help. Oh conclave please clarify this...
As far as I understand it, we are to no longer have Ambassadors of TEP. Between the Delegate and the new Ministry with all the fancy new Ministers, we should be all covered. :P
We have one ambassador now. :P
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A mean old man
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Waiting on Ramaeus. Come on, guys; let's get staffed and push this treaty through. Thank you ASBS and EM; glad to have you here.
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Ramaeus
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Alright, alright. I'll join. I'll just need a crash course on it.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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How would you like to proceed?

One of us could work with someone on the TSP side to iron out some of the formatting. I don't see a lot of substantive issues. I think there is likely to be general acceptance of this treaty in TEP.

Or we could wordsmith and format it within this thread and then throw back over the wall to TSP.

Just let me know.

(I'm randomly online through much of this weekend. Doing family stuff for the holiday.)
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A mean old man
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I personally have no problems with it as it stands. I'm wondering if any of the Ministers do before we hand it to the Magisterium. This should be a fairly simple job.
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Ramaeus
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I don't have any problems with it.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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Here is how I would suggest the treaty be formatted. Also, I have added a suggested 7th point. (I also think number 6 is unnecessary, but I have no objection to its existence.


Quote:
 
Treaty between The South Pacific and The East Pacific

Preamble

Wishing to strengthen our regional ties, and recognizing our commonalities as free and friendly pacific regions, we join together in an alliance of friendship and mutual defense.

General Provisions

1. The parties to this treaty are The East Pacific and The South Pacific.

2. The parties will recognize the constitutional governments in force at the time of ratification of this treaty as the sole legitimate governments of their respective regions.

3. The parties will not undermine one another through subterfuge, espionage, invasion, or any other means.

4. The parties will defend one another to the best of their ability on the request of the other party.

5. The parties will share any intelligence relevant to the defense of the other party.

6. A new treaty between the parties may override this treaty.

7. Either party can dissolve this treaty by means of a written notification which is in accordance with the local decision-making rules of each party.


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A mean old man
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I agree with ASBS's proposed edits and have notified SB.

I had overlooked the lack of a dissolution clause.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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If the others are in agreement, let us know when we should take it to the Magisterium.
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Ramaeus
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I'm fine with the change.
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A mean old man
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Apparently TSP's Assembly is being nitpicky with the treaty. We'll have to wait. I don't really see what there is to be nitpicky over.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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Is there any reason why we shouldn't propose similar treaties with other feeder and sinker regions (with exception of Osiris)?
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A mean old man
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We probably should. It will be time-consuming but worth the effort.
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southern bellz
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I apologize for the delay, but the Assembly took issue with some of the wording, and here is our counter proposal.

Quote:
 
TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND MUTUAL DEFENSE

THE SOUTH PACIFIC AND THE EAST PACIFIC, wishing to strengthen our existing regional ties and bounds of friendship, recognizing our shared history as free, open and democratic regions, declare and proclaim the following articles as a Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Defense.

Chapter I

(1) The regions of The South Pacific and The East Pacific shall be bound to follow the provisions of this Treaty.

(2) Both parties shall recognize the other as the sole legitimate government of the respective region, and shall extend such recognition to all subsequent governments that meet the following requirements;

Has been duly elected by the region or come to power otherwise through the provisions of the established constitution of the respective region or any subsequent constitution deriving from such.

Follows the provisions of the established constitution and laws of the respective region or any subsequent constitution and laws deriving from such .

(3) Both parties shall defend one another from all unprovoked attacks to the best of their abilities upon receipt of the request of the other and undertake to share all intelligence relevant to the defense of the other, unless such actions would conflict with an extant formal duty to a third party in which case strict neutrality shall be substituted.

(4) Neither party shall undermine the other through subterfuge, espionage, invasion or any other such means.

Chapter II

(1) Both parties may amend or otherwise supersede this treaty with the consent and approval of the other party.

(2) Either party may dissolve this treaty by means of a written notification, taking effect exactly one week after receipt.
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Ramaeus
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Why one week? Is there any reason TSP chose that length of time?
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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This is a bit of a muddle, isn't it?

Quote:
 
Either party may dissolve this treaty by means of a written notification, taking effect exactly one week after receipt.


When a treaty is dissolved, it's over. Holding the other party to treaty for another week, after they've said they're done, seems unworkable.

Quote:
 
2) Both parties shall recognize the other as the sole legitimate government of the respective region, and shall extend such recognition to all subsequent governments that meet the following requirements;

Has been duly elected by the region or come to power otherwise through the provisions of the established constitution of the respective region or any subsequent constitution deriving from such.

Follows the provisions of the established constitution and laws of the respective region or any subsequent constitution and laws deriving from such .


This is a rather complicated attempt to allow the treaty to be valid with subsequent governments that seem reasonably "constitutional."

The earlier version was much simpler:

Quote:
 
The parties will recognize the constitutional governments in force at the time of ratification of this treaty as the sole legitimate governments of their respective regions.


If TEP or TSP go through a constitutional process where some new "strange" process becomes the government (even though it may be "constitutional"), I believe either party may want to void the treaty. For example, suppose the new government of TEP required all Delegates, Magisters, and Arbiters to be women between the ages of 30 and 50. And this change followed the Concordat mandated processes, with appropriate amendments, etc. I don't think TSP will be held to the treaty. They can dissolve the relationship immediately.

Quote:
 
Both parties may amend or otherwise supersede this treaty with the consent and approval of the other party.


I think this bit is unnecessary, but I have no objection.
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southern bellz
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1) I agree about the one week being strange and will advocate it's removal.

2) A lot of people in TSP took issue with the original wording due to the belief that Milograd would have fallen under constitutional government in for at the time of ratification.
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Ramaeus
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southern bellz
 
2) A lot of people in TSP took issue with the original wording due to the belief that Milograd would have fallen under constitutional government in for at the time of ratification.

I find it odd that TSP wouldn't specifically outlaw a delegate going rouge. It seems like one of the first things you do after a coup of that magnitude, outlaw the actions Milograd took to coup the rightful government.
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A Slanted Black Stripe
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I've neglected this thread for a bit. Apologies.

So we've had a bit of a discussion and my sense is there is some agreement (amongst those participating on this thread) that we can remove the one week notification.

I don't think the current language in Chapter I (2) is enforceable. You can't force the other party to void the treaty when you have an internal coup or non-legitimate change in your government. The other party will either accept the new government or not. In the case of the Milograd coup, TEP did not recognize the usurper as the legitimate leader. Similarly, we have not accepted Gatesville, Inc. as the legitimate government of Osiris.

Four years after the empire, we're still sensitive to those who would abuse the native population.

I propose we go back to the earlier language. The reality is we can only make a treaty between the current existing governments.

Quote:
 
TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND MUTUAL DEFENSE

THE SOUTH PACIFIC AND THE EAST PACIFIC, wishing to strengthen our existing regional ties and bounds of friendship, recognizing our shared history as free, open and democratic regions, declare and proclaim the following articles as a Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Defense.

Chapter I

(1) The regions of The South Pacific and The East Pacific shall be bound to follow the provisions of this Treaty.

(2) Both parties shall recognize the other as the sole legitimate government of the respective region, and shall extend such recognition to all subsequent governments that meet the following requirements;

Has been duly elected by the region or come to power otherwise through the provisions of the established constitution of the respective region or any subsequent constitution deriving from such.

Follows the provisions of the established constitution and laws of the respective region or any subsequent constitution and laws deriving from such
.

(3) Both parties shall defend one another from all unprovoked attacks to the best of their abilities upon receipt of the request of the other and undertake to share all intelligence relevant to the defense of the other, unless such actions would conflict with an extant formal duty to a third party in which case strict neutrality shall be substituted.

(4) Neither party shall undermine the other through subterfuge, espionage, invasion or any other such means.

Chapter II

(1) Both parties may amend or otherwise supersede this treaty with the consent and approval of the other party.

(2) Either party may dissolve this treaty by means of a written notification, taking effect exactly one week after receipt.
Edited by A Slanted Black Stripe, Jul 27 2013, 01:33:16 PM.
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A mean old man
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Quote:
 
Treaty:

Regions which may ratify this Treaty and take part in this Alliance (The Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance or MPSA) are as follows: The Pacific, The East Pacific, The South Pacific, The West Pacific, The North Pacific, Lazarus, The Rejected Realms, Balder, Osiris. The government of any one of these regions may ratify this Treaty at will and henceforth agrees to abide by the terms set forth within this document.

All member regions of The Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance will pledge no greater allegiance to any entity that is not their respective local governments (the governments which have ratified this Treaty).

No member region of The Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance will initiate or facilitate the overthrowing, the infiltration, or the unjust denigration (slander) of a fellow Alliance member region and/or its government.

No MPSA-involved region's government which has ratified this Treaty will usurp or replace with itself the government of another MPSA-involved region.

No government of any Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance member region which has ratified this Treaty will willingly allow itself to be replaced by any governmental body which originates from any place foreign to the MPSA-involved region which it controls.

No government of any Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance member region which has ratified this Treaty will allow itself to be usurped for the purposes of entities foreign to the MPSA-involved region which it controls.

Likewise, no government of any Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance member region will willingly allow its region to be exploited by any forces foreign to the MPSA-involved region which it controls through action such as:


  • the distribution of World Assembly member nations to foreign regions or organizations in return for any sort of political favor as if these nations were some sort of item meant for barter or to be used as currency (not including the movement of troops in a military operation),

  • the sale of governmental influence or positions to foreign leaders in return for any sort of favors from the foreign leaders' regions or organizations as if such influence was an item meant for barter or a form of intangible currency,

  • and the entrance of any Alliance-bound delegate’s voting power into any kind of World Assembly voting bloc foreign to the GCRs and foreign to the MPSA.


Upon a member region's violations of these terms it is no longer to be considered a member of the Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance. A corrupt/usurper government inherently in violation of these terms which attempts to ratify this Treaty is not to be considered a member of the Modern Pacific-Sinker Alliance.

On the occasion of an emergency situation in a member region of the MPSA (which is to be deemed as such by the government of the MPSA-involved region in which the emergency situation is extant), the other member regions should attempt anything and everything within their power to end such a state of emergency and return the other member region to its former, stable, and secure state.

Modern Security Force:

With the existence of this Treaty likewise emerges the existence of the Modern Security Force (MSF). The primary directive of this pan-GCR military, which comes before all other activities in which it partakes, will be to act to end "emergency situations" such as those referenced in the final clause of the Treaty as quickly and as efficiently as possible without jeopardizing the sovereignty of member regions.

Participation in this military is voluntary and will be decided by the appropriate officials within each member region. Any member region that joins MSF has the right to leave at any time. Any member region that joins must assign its two highest ranking military officers to the MSF Council within the MPSA's forum. This Council will decide via informal consensus how to organize the military and where to send it.

The consent of appropriate officials is required before MSF troops are to engage in a mission that does not pertain to local emergency situations. This fundamental detail aside, the organization of MSF is the responsibility of the leaders involved and may be subject to change.

MSF will not engage in military activities irrelevant to the politics of its involved regions.

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Edited by A mean old man, Aug 7 2013, 11:45:24 AM.
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