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| Committee: Roleplay | |||
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| Topic Started: Oct 16 2016, 06:53:29 PM (2,039 Views) | |||
| Todd McCloud | Oct 16 2016, 06:53:29 PM Post #1 | ||
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Planet Telox
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![]() Committee for Roleplay Purpose: Our roleplay has in the past defined us as a region. Countless participants have shaped the in-character universe that is The East Pacific Roleplay. This committee will attempt to bring in all current and aspiring roleplayers to The East Pacific for the purpose of re-vamping our roleplay, making it active, easier to join, and better at integrating new nations into our system. As there are a number of changes for potential discussion, it is expected and therefore highly recommended that committee members attempt to include as many roleplayers as possible. Potential points of discussion:
Participants: All roleplayers, both current and aspiring, in The East Pacific. Leaders: (To be selected over the coming 1-2 days.) Timeframe: From now until November 20, 2016, or sooner if the committee comes to a resolution sooner End Goal: The committee will present any and all changes to the roleplay section of The East Pacific. These agreed-upon changes will be initiated and installed by whatever group is needed (forum administration, etc) |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Val | Oct 16 2016, 11:47:56 PM Post #2 | ||
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Fantomas
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Alright, so I've been recently appointed as one of the leaders of the RP committee. My job is to ensure the flow of RP and try to get new players into TEP's world of intrigue, backstabbing, piracy, mercenaries, and politics. Anyways enough ado and let's get into the nitty gritty.
I've discussed this with Hobbes/South Hills and really went into depth of what this might entail with Todd McCloud. One of my main concerns about the current Roleplay (RP for short) is that it is currently a very complex and lore deep system. You have nations with previously agreed upon treaties that extend back to 2013 IRL, and even further back to the founding of TEP's Roleplay world in 2003/2004. Keep in mind, that is IRL years, so this region has been around for a long time. One of my suggestions for a soft reset entailed the eradication of existing treaties, starting anew with our nations in the existing region map. Basically, starting from square one. However this might be a little far-reaching considering how much effort was put into nurturing the entire world that TEP has. For instance Todd McCloud, who plays as the Vekaiyun Union/Listonia, has spent IRL years nurturing his nation. Doing a soft reset that I described would be a literal pain in the rear for him because it requires massive rewrites of his nation's history. It's something not a lot of people are willing to undergo and is understandable. For this I am hoping to reach a consensus on what would be done for a soft reset, if we ever do decide to have one. If you have any ideas or the sort, feel free to post in this thread. Any suggestion is welcome.
This is a major concern, one that'd I say requires the most attention. Currently we have a lot of members here on this great region, but we lack connectivity to discuss OOC matters from helping others set up a roleplay post or getting their feet wet. To remedy this, I suggested the idea that uses three existing chatrooms with links to the said rooms at the very top of the website. It would garner more attention since it's there and at an easy to see position. Currently we run two chatrooms on Skype, one for Roleplay discussion and the other for general discussions with other members on this site. We also manage a Discord chatroom, but to be honest, I rarely go on there although we have plenty of members connected to it. I advocate for this option because it allows conversations with others on a personal level. Instead of posting in the OOC subsection we have on the forums, you actually feel like having a discussion with others that receives more prompt responses. For those who don't use Skype or Discord for whatsoever reasons, we still suggest having discussions on the OOC subsections. It allows us to get in touch with others and coordinate or throw out ideas for the next RP.
Currently our map is being updated by our cartographer, Southern Yugoslavia. Unfortunately he is kinda busy IRL so the updates are put on hold. When it comes to disputed claims, the leadership will ask each party if there is any territory that they are willing to give up in order to come to an agreement. I support the notion that players should start off small but powerful enough to the point where invading them by a superior player will be costly. The reason for this is to promote more RP posts since each player will want to grow their nation. Whether by peaceful expansion and settlers, or through outright domination with military force. Having players start off reasonably small or medium sized in comparison to older players will help save space on the map. Any thoughts to this? As to the rest of the bullet points, I will post sometime tomorrow in an effort to continue the conversation. I hope that anyone who has a suggestion or concerns, will voice them.
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| Dragonia | Oct 17 2016, 05:07:10 AM Post #3 | ||
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The Grand Duchy of Dragonia
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Personally I would say no to the "soft-reset" option. Only because of the time and effort that other nations have taken with their nations to reach the point where they are at now. The TEP map was reset once and nations had to go back and change their backstories and histories to match this new map. Also with the new map came some changes in Tech level 'cap' (for a lack of a better word - think it was around 2023 tech level?), with a few exceptions for the older established nations (Pax - comes to mind). (see below) So No to the 'soft-reset' option. -=-=-=-=-=-=- Making the chat room more 'accessible' with a link everybody can find would be nice. I personally don't 'Skype' or 'Discord'. But others do/might for RP reasons. -=-=-=-=-=-=- Yes we should have those with overlapping claims to a map 'iron' it out themselves. Sorta like a 'mini-RP', gets them to work together in the beginning. Having new players start of small is a good idea, not have someone come in and say I would like half the continent for my nation. This thread here: http://theeastpacific.com/topic/7001696/1/ . . shows how overlapping claims on the continent of Aurora got sorted out peacefully and easily quite quickly to be honest. Shocked me. We could do that and let the RPer's work it out themselves with a 'moderator' working with them on the map? -=-=-=-=-=-=- New role-playing ideas. I would say, hopefully with new players, new ideas would happen. -=-=-=-=-=-=- I am all for establishing an 'across-the-board' tech to start out with, make sure it is posted in it's own thread easily accessible/found by RPer's. As I posted above, we made a couple of exceptions for the Pax and a few others who have been established in TEP from practically the beginning. Pax has done a wonderful job of 'down-playing' their tech level to not 'over-balance' the TEP world, especially when TEP changed to the new map. -=-=-=-=-=-=- Role-play officers. Sorta like DM's (Dungeon Masters in AD&D, or GM's 'Game Masters') if you will. But with the players asking them for advice if they come to a snag/problem. Sure why not. I'll volunteer, but must warn y'all, RL is getting busy ATM for me, but a can try to help out. -=-=-=-=-=-=- There definitely needs organization to the role-play section. I get lost trying to find anything. I know it's there, read it before, just can't remember which forum and/or thread it was in. I get somewhat frustrated with it all at times. -=-=-=-=-=-=- my two-knuts worth
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Grand Duchy of Dragonia"Life is a great big cosmic joke. You are either the butt of this joke, or you choose to laugh at life. I have been laughing at life since birth!" * * * *
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| packilvania | Oct 17 2016, 07:35:40 AM Post #4 | ||
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Caliph
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If anyone needs assistance with the REALLY old stuff, feel free to ask. I remember some of it still. | ||
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| Dylan | Oct 17 2016, 02:27:12 PM Post #5 | ||
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Regional Cartographer
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I've stated in the older thread, but count me in for something. If anything to do with the regional map is a possibility I'd like to go down that route, if that's possible. I hope to be of good help
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| Tuva | Oct 17 2016, 02:59:20 PM Post #6 | ||
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Startled
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I would also like to do something related to the regional map. | ||
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| Aelitia | Oct 17 2016, 04:59:35 PM Post #7 | ||
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The Fluffy Horde
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I see this as something which has happened numerous times over the course of TEP roleplay. I support the idea of continuity but simply adding more areas for people to get involved- such as the Tepans or the "Africa" Regions introduced in the map by BGP. Further, I believe that updating the map would beneficial. TEP still operates on a map to which the rights were not acquired from the author, and this is a major detriment to the quality of map updates. A master file and singular map style would be good for RP.
Again, I think providing a number of opportunities across the map to get involved would be good. Not just the 'claim a single plot' and go, but being able to take control of an entity or group in a conflict zone, or involve yourself in a specific area of policy or interest.
This could be done by reaching out the original author of the map with the intent on reconciling the differences in opinion. If this is possible, I am sure a more amiable and workable solution can be attained- which could develop into a team of people with the ability to edit the master map to a certain standard level of professionalism.
Creating "Zones" like the Tepans or "Africa" are a great and easy way to do this. Make the region with an underlying storyline and go from there, like a sandbox that mirrors historical situations such as the breakup of Yugoslavia or the Scramble for Africa. We should welcome the concept of historical notions as things to mirror in RP, since it provides such a depth of information not usually achieved in original RP. Further, I think that developing "Group-Contolled" nations where certain people are elected to a legislature or executive to act as that country could be interesting. This nation as a whole could interact with other nations, but inside the political machinations and deals could be RP'd. International diplomacy has always been hard. One ball could get rolling and then it slows. I have always been an advocate for loose international coalitions such as the Coalition of Nations, but it is difficult to iron out and play within. I would suggest making a mandatory International Institution which forces RP nations to be introduced to certain issues. This was the Mods (or even elected players) could steer RP in a certain direction or introduce policy issues for people to talk on. Since it would be mandatory, this institution should not have legislative or binding powers, much like the UN General Assembly.
Could be diffuclt and would require a highly technical level of skill in armaments and weapons in the mod team. I am, in general, in agreement with this concept. However there should always be exceptions, even if it was based off today's tech. The economic realities of RP countries would also factor into this, since most people are averse to economic realism.
This could get dicey very quickly. Both players would have to submit to the decision before hand, and there is no guarantee that it would be a fair decision. A fair decision would be predicated on the realism of the situation, which is sometimes in question. Something I thought of after posting would be to revive the "Regional Topographic" magazine which was published. This was an AMAZING and STUNNING look into TEP RP, and could undoubtedly be used to draw in new players. It was a group effort by contributing ads or articles, and all put together by BGP. The end result looked very much like a National Geographic magazine, and I believe we should get back on the track of putting this together again. This could even be what we do instead of a Regional Update, for instance. Show the world that TEP has such a creative force behind it, and people might well be drawn here. Edited by Aelitia, Oct 17 2016, 05:05:29 PM.
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| Tretrid | Oct 17 2016, 09:46:27 PM Post #8 | ||
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Partly Cloudy
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One of the more problematic parts of TEP roleplay. Also, I looked carefully at the map, and some areas are slightly different in color (JPEG compression?). It makes filling very problematic. Edited by Tretrid, Oct 17 2016, 09:48:26 PM.
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All my characters' names are randomly generated. Any resemblance or match in name with a person in real life is purely coincidental. "Potentia est ad populum suum" My name is not "Tetrid." My forum badges My current government positions
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 19 2016, 06:25:59 AM Post #9 | ||
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Planet Telox
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With respect to the soft resent, this was attempted a few years ago, but my thing is if it's not really enforced, then it's kind of a moot point. Sometimes a reset is a good thing. We did one in 2008 which helped me to better join the region. It was a map reset and not a history reset, so I did have to ask some questions and there were times I made some ill-advised moves which endued up hurting Vekaiyu in the beginning. But, I stuck with it, people held me accountable for my mistakes, and I believe it's because of that why I still enjoy RPing. I think we're critically missing four key aspects from our roleplay that if we really worked on, we could become very active and make it more fun: - Better OOC connectivity: much of our OOC discussion has occurred on skype, which is fine for the people who use and read all the messages on skype, but is a bit unfair for the people who don't, I believe. We can talk OOC in a chat room, but we need to ensure any resulting OOC talk goes in the OOC forum. That's what it's there for. How can new members know what's going on if there's no where to read it? - RP Accountability: Whatever we do decide on RPing here, we need to make sure there is accountability. That is, if someone godmods or is being unfair, someone needs to step in and sort it out. We've had this in the past, but since they retired we haven't had a new RP guardian in some time. - Map stuff: things like keeping the same colors, fixing disputed claims, etc would be the best. Perhaps I can look into this, but it's not my job to work on the map, and I've got other stuff in the region to work with. Perhaps someone would be willing to work with Laiatan on the map so we have a few members working on it? - A better way to connect history to current: I've been thinking long and hard about this. I think sometimes people get a little intimidated at some nations having 10 year RP histories and some nations well, just joined. While I do believe anyone can jump in at any time, perhaps we can have more information threads, like threads that inform people on which nations have treaties with which, species information, RP history threads, etc. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 19 2016, 06:30:45 AM Post #10 | ||
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Planet Telox
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That is not true. The previous cartographer prevented us from using the past map when he decided to quit, so we had to hire a new person to design our new map in the spirit of the previous map because of the harassment some members received. I have the paypal statement if there is any confusion on this matter. We have a master file. As for a singular map style, we can work on that. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Val | Oct 20 2016, 08:13:35 PM Post #11 | ||
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Fantomas
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Another idea popped up with the help of Nimonia. I am wondering how willing other players are to the idea of a Soft-Reset, this time playing as space faring nations set in the year 2100 or 2200. I like the idea a lot and so does Nim, but I wanted others to make an input on it. |
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| Dragonia | Oct 20 2016, 09:25:08 PM Post #12 | ||
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The Grand Duchy of Dragonia
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I read this, and the first thing that popped into my head was a resounding NO! Then I thought about it for a few moments and weighed the pro and con of it .. and I will still have to say no. However -- IF a thread is started stating from the beginning: This thread is only for those who wish to RP in a 2100-2200 space faring nation, I could see it. But to do a 'soft-reset' for the East Pacific just to do a space based nation states, I can not see myself doing that. Sorry, it's how I feel about it. |
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Grand Duchy of Dragonia"Life is a great big cosmic joke. You are either the butt of this joke, or you choose to laugh at life. I have been laughing at life since birth!" * * * *
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 20 2016, 09:35:13 PM Post #13 | ||
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Planet Telox
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We wouldn't have to do a 'soft reset' and advance the roleplay and kill off all our people - I'd e against that. However, we could have an 'alternate universe' where we admins create a new subforum and everything in that subforum is from the year 2100 for instance. So all current RP's would count, but if anyone wanted to do an RP in the past or future, they would go to the respective subforum. | ||
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 20 2016, 09:40:10 PM Post #14 | ||
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Planet Telox
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Also, there are two character-based RP's that have been rebooted, so they're new and should be easy to join if someone is looking to get involved in RP: Shiro Academy International Sealab I'll also be supplying another character-based thread soon... I just need to iron out some details. Anyway, it's a great place to start for new RPers or people who just want to Rp. You don't need to have extravagant backstories or even know a whole lot about your nation. As a matter of fact, it's easier if you don't, because then you have the luxury of making it up as you go! |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| DrWinner | Oct 21 2016, 03:20:26 PM Post #15 | ||
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A Slime draws near, , ,
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Regarding the "Across the board Tech": The Pacific uses a system with multiple Tech levels. Modern Tech is the main stage for RP in the New Pacific Order, with other branches, such as Post-Modern Tech, Future-Tech, and Past-Tech serving both as a place for RPs regarding that tech level and as a continuation of the IG universe, in regards to the future in the past, respectively. I believe that the RP here, in the East Pacific, could benefit from a system like the one in the Pacific, where there are multiple tech levels. All nations could participate in the Modern Tech (which would require powering down some people, such as Pax), and nations which wish to RP in the other Tech-times could easily RP there as well. This system would allow everyone to exist on the same level, and ensure fairness and thus fun in RP. ((My suggestion is much like what Todd has suggested. There'd be no need for a reset if tech levels were implemented, nations would just have to shift to the proper tech level, and create past/future versions of their nations for the other tech levels.)) Edited by DrWinner, Oct 21 2016, 03:22:18 PM.
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DrWinner: Certified Diplomat from The Pacific. LadyHope: Your fellow citizen of The East Pacific, and a puppet of DrWinner. | |||
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| Val | Oct 21 2016, 08:57:15 PM Post #16 | ||
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Fantomas
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I agree with this, however for some such as the Pax, it requires giving up years worth of roleplay. :\ |
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| DrWinner | Oct 21 2016, 09:12:19 PM Post #17 | ||
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A Slime draws near, , ,
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Not necessarily. Pax's RP would just have to be moved to the appropriate tech level, and there it can be preserved and continued as it stands. Plus, through doing that, Pax would be able to flesh out their nation's history in MT. |
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DrWinner: Certified Diplomat from The Pacific. LadyHope: Your fellow citizen of The East Pacific, and a puppet of DrWinner. | |||
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| Val | Oct 21 2016, 09:28:23 PM Post #18 | ||
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Fantomas
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The Pax uses Borg-ish technology that's a Virtual Hivemind using phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range.
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 23 2016, 07:24:10 AM Post #19 | ||
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Planet Telox
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We actually did have "era-based" RP's in the past. Some had success, others just kind of faded. If enough people would like for an era-based RP to be revived, we can always make a new one or sort of bring one back as a reboot. | ||
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| BonBon | Oct 23 2016, 09:36:31 PM Post #20 | ||
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hello, Again
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Hello! I'm new. Please forgive any typos. I thought perhaps the perspective of a new player might be valuable in this discussion.
I understand there is ~10yrs of IRL RP backstory to this area, and that's fascinating. Is there an area where it's recorded and can be read by newbies? The basics -- current leading powers, maybe a bit of political / character history for each large territory -- would be valuable. How would a new ruler find out about their neighboring territories?
The suggestion was raised to add a Skype button. (Is the IRC room no longer used, or used for a different purpose?) I personally don't use Skype very often, but that's not to say I wouldn't. Making OOC connection easier would naturally engage new players. I'm in support of adding Skype or other services to encourage communication.
I understand Southern Yugoslavia is busy until the end of the month, at least. I'll wait to claim my space on the map until then. Otherwise, it seems the map is kept fairly recent.
I haven't explored the RP forums yet.. but I am looking forward to fleshing out the inhabitants of my territory.
This would be very useful in RP. I'm all for it. The suggestion of varying tech-levels was also brought up, and that's a good idea, too, though I feel it needs to be defined better -- a real-world range of time for each level would be great.
I support this concept, if disputes are common, but I suggest that there should be a higher authority in the case that the officer's judgement is questioned or challenged. Does this exist? Anyone in a position of authority is bound to be challenged at some point. Also, as far as territory disputes go, would it be better to call in a mediator but allow the parties to attempt negotiation between themselves, under supervision?
Again, I haven't ventured into the RP forums yet.. it sounds like there might need to be some tidying up done. I hope there is some value to the committee in this post. See you around~ |
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| Rogueparagon | Oct 24 2016, 05:02:25 PM Post #21 | ||
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Lord of the Idiots
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I've got some background in cartography and image editing, so I'd be down for helping out when I can. Testing out platforms and figuring out which would work best for the overall map editing would come first, I gather. |
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 24 2016, 06:04:30 PM Post #22 | ||
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Planet Telox
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All non-archived roleplay forums now have fancy buttons at the top, including a button to join the skype roleplay chat. Do we need to add / remove / change any of them? | ||
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 24 2016, 06:09:37 PM Post #23 | ||
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Planet Telox
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Well, there are several NSwiki pages, and a lot of national info pages on the forums. Many nations, especially older nations, are presented in this thread here. If you can't find anything else, you can click on the name of the nation, which will take you to the user who controls that nation.
We now have the RP skype button atop all non-archived RP forums. It's a positive change!
Disputes aren't that common, but RP officers can be useful if disputes arise. I would hope if an RP officer is directly involved in a conflict, he or she would recuse themselves. If we need an accountability system for the officers, the administration team could always work that out. Most of us are seasoned RPers anyway ![]() |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Val | Oct 24 2016, 06:32:48 PM Post #24 | ||
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Fantomas
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Alright, making an Announcement to this committee. Nimona is now our backup/Second Cartographer. She will help cover the map when Zach cannot and vice versa. So everyone give her a round of applause! No, seriously. It's gonna be a pain for her to take this job on. ;D Congrats Nim! Looking forward to your contributions to TEP. Also remember, you are here forever.
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| Ember | Oct 24 2016, 06:47:05 PM Post #25 | ||
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Doin You A H*ckin Frighten
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Happy to be of service!
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| Fortuna | Oct 24 2016, 09:44:25 PM Post #26 | ||
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Not Lucky Enough
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Congrats on the promotion! *claps intensely* |
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The Three States of Fortuna "Strength Comes From Unity." NSwiki Pages: Fortuna, Ambravia, Contagne ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 1 2016, 07:03:14 PM Post #27 | ||
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Planet Telox
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![]() Halfway Report (~15 Days) What we have done so far:
What we will do To be completed by the RP leader |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Val | Nov 3 2016, 08:48:36 PM Post #28 | ||
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Fantomas
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Okay, since the topic of tech level has come up. Many RP'ers such as the Pax, Dragonia, Vekaiyu, South Hills, and whatnot use PMT levels. I'm wanting to ask everyone if they are willing to use PMT technology or something of the sort. One of the ideas kicking around is that the Pax would move to the Moon and establish a base there. From there it could become a serious interplanetary war brewing with various whatnots happening on Urth and the Moon. |
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The Northern Gondwana Union | NSWiki Link of the Northern Gondwana Union Socialist Soviet Republic of Molovia | NSWiki Link of Molovia | |||
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 12 2016, 09:18:40 PM Post #29 | ||
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Planet Telox
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Vekaiyu / The Vekaiyun Union is mostly MT except for a few aspects, namely: 1. Holographic computers 2. Urban Missile Defense System (basically large towers near cities charged with shooting a missile out of the sky prior to entering city zones) 3. The large magnetic ship they recently built 4. Some aquatic innovations mentioned briefly in The International Sealab. 5. Limb replacements if missing. 6. Light tanks which shoot laser-like beams (only a few built). That's about all I can think of right now. I really only see 2, 3, and 6 being potentially clashing - the rest are rather harmless. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |||
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| Val | Nov 12 2016, 09:21:21 PM Post #30 | ||
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Fantomas
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I take it as wanting to stay within the realm of MT/very early PMT right? Thank you Todd for responding.
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3:58 AM Jul 11