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The East Pacific-Equilism Treaty of Friendship
Topic Started: Jul 7 2018, 09:44:03 AM (371 Views)
Wonder Woman
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Ashurbanipal
The East Pacific-Equilism Treaty of Friendship

In order to join our regions together in the bonds of friendship, and to help with the common defense, the regions of Equilism and The East Pacific agree to the following provisions:

1.) The parties to this treaty are Equilism and The East Pacific.
2.) The parties will recognize the constitutional governments in force at the time of ratification of this treaty as the sole legitimate governments of their respective regions.
3.) If either party to this treaty defames the other party, then the offended party may issue a statement regarding the incident to the offending regions leadership.
4.) To the extent practicable, TEP and Equilism shall provide the other defensive military assistance in case of an attack.
5.) Both parties shall provide information to the other if such information is pertinent to the other region's security or well-being, or otherwise upon the other's reasonable request, unless the party in possession of such information reasonably believes that providing that information might violate applicable laws or contravene the terms of service for NationStates or the region's forum provider, or when revealing that information would unduly compromise that party's source(s) of information. Both signatories shall endeavor to reveal as much as possible in such situations, but not more than they can under laws, terms of service or the need to protect sources.
6.) Both parties agree to allow lecturers from one party's University to be able to give their lectures in the other party's University.
7.) Both parties agree to hold an annual festival between them, with Equilism holding the first festival, TEP the second, and so on, with the date(s) of the festival to be determined between the governments of the parties.
8.) Neither party will engage in military hostilities against the other. Participation by either party on opposite sides of a military engagement that does not constitute an attack on either region shall not be considered "military hostilities against the other" for this purpose.
9.) TEP and Equilism will collaborate militarily for the combined benefit of both regions when practical.
10.) Neither TEP nor Equilism will set spies on the other. For this purpose, a "spy" is a person acting under false pretenses in one region, without that region's knowledge, and at the direction of the other region's legitimate government.
11.) TEP and Equilism shall establish and maintain in-game embassies (i.e., on the NationStates site) with one another.
12.) TEP and Equilism shall maintain off-site embassies (i.e., on their regional forums), consistent with facilities provided to other allies.
13.) This treaty shall take effect when it has been ratified by the duly authorized legislative bodies of both TEP and Equilism.
14.) If a party to this treaty acts in willful non-compliance to this treaty, or attacks an ally of the other party, then the other party may immediately terminate this treaty and/or all diplomatic relations, and may issue a statement detailing the transgression.
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Rogueparagon
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I take concerns establishing a treaty this in-depth with a region we have no embassy with. What interactions have occurred between us to warrant such close cooperation? To be quite frank, I've never heard of Equalism, and I believe that the MoFA would have to provide clarity on who the region is, what they stand for, and the interactions that warrant such a close bind when we don't even have them embassy'd.


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Kurnugia
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I take issue with no 8.

8.) Neither party will engage in military hostilities against the other. Participation by either party on opposite sides of a military engagement that does not constitute an attack on either region shall not be considered "military hostilities against the other" for this purpose.

I do not know if this is still the case, but I know that they claim(ed?) ownership over Warzone Europe. As such I have to take issue to this paragraph as a raid on a Warzone is seen in Gameplay as fair game and yet could constitute a hostile activity toward Equilism. As such, I'll object to the treaty unless warzones are classified as fair game.
Edited by Kurnugia, Jul 7 2018, 10:24:27 AM.
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Tim
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Honestly, I don't think we should be signing a treaty with a UCR that claims to own a Game-Created Region, even if it just a Warzone one. It's really troubling for a UCR to be able to claim complete dominion over a Game-Created Region like that, especially since the current residents of Warzone Europe clearly don't recognize this ownership claim. I also agree with Kurnugia's concerns regarding the language in the treaty.

Furthermore, while rogueparagon is incorrect in his claim that we have no relations with them, those relations seem pretty stagnant. Sure, we have an in-game embassy, but the forum-based Consulate has been dead for nearly a year now. This is not the kind of relationship I would want to see a treaty come out of. I'd also like to inquire what benefit Equilism brings us? TEP's treaties should, first and foremost, be of benefit to TEP. Equilism is a region with less than 100 nations, no active recruitment, no significant military, and its RMB still has posts from over a month ago. I fail to see what Equilism, which can be very much classified as stagnant and on the decline, offers The East Pacific in any way.
Edited by Tim, Jul 8 2018, 02:39:19 PM.
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Bachtendekuppen
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I second the concerns of Rogueparagon and Tim on this issue. Can the FA ministry provide the necessary explications?
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Bachtendekuppen
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Allow me to add that, in similar fashion to the proposal regarding the NWA, in addition to a lack of underlying relationship with the region in question or at least some fundamental explication of policy thereon by the FA ministry or the Delegate, I sorely miss any overall policy or goal in our FA. Unless I missed that somewhere.

What is our goal with all these treaties of late? Do we strive, as a region and GCR, to make treaties with just any region at all? Are all our treaties and proposed treaties legally and practically coherent? What do we, as TEP, seek to accomplish and what does TEP gain?
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Bach for TEP

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Drachen
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Yare yare dawa...
Bachtendekuppen
Jul 9 2018, 02:43:24 PM
Allow me to add that, in similar fashion to the proposal regarding the NWA, in addition to a lack of underlying relationship with the region in question or at least some fundamental explication of policy thereon by the FA ministry or the Delegate, I sorely miss any overall policy or goal in our FA. Unless I missed that somewhere.

What is our goal with all these treaties of late? Do we strive, as a region and GCR, to make treaties with just any region at all? Are all our treaties and proposed treaties legally and practically coherent? What do we, as TEP, seek to accomplish and what does TEP gain?
I have to agree entirely with Bach's sentiments here and would like to double down on his inquiries. The one that stands out to me the most is one both I and other Magisters have asked to no satisfactory answer, and that is "what does TEP gain?"

I do not challenge the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' intent to branch out and develop relations with many other regions; however, I have to argue that composing a treaty should not be among the initial steps of this process. Speaking specifically for this document, it doesn't seem to be the case that many Magisters, and by extension many citizens of the region, know much (if anything at all) about the target region. There has been no solid case put forth for explaining why a treaty with Equilism would be a considerably beneficial property for The East Pacific.

Upon very limited investigation of the region, it seems nice enough, but small, and I genuinely cannot determine what at its current size and influence it could offer one of the largest and most prestigious feeder regions. I've said it before and I will say it again: when we seek to construct treaties between other regions, it is imperative that we secure at the very least equal benefit from such an undertaking. As far as I can tell with this treaty, we have not met and likely will not for a time meet that requirement.
[edit_reason]Wording[/edit_reason]
Edited by Drachen, Jul 9 2018, 05:09:54 PM.
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Marrabuk
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I agree and echo the statements made above. First of all, they're a UCR. We haven't had any embassies with them. I also think they have more to gain than us in the following section

4),8) and) 9). I feel that they have more to gain than us because we have a stronger military than them. Especially our military combined with fellow Pacifica regions like the NPO who will always have our back.

Therefore, I believe this treaty will strengthen them than us. As the second largest region in game, I don't feel we need to strenghten and give bragging rights to a, for a lack of better word, weakling.
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Jul 11 2018, 02:51:35 AM
I agree and echo the statements made above. First of all, they're a UCR. We haven't had any embassies with them. I also think they have more to gain than us in the following section

4),8) and) 9). I feel that they have more to gain than us because we have a stronger military than them. Especially our military combined with fellow Pacifica regions like the NPO who will always have our back.

Therefore, I believe this treaty will strengthen them than us. As the second largest region in game, I don't feel we need to strenghten and give bragging rights to a, for a lack of better word, weakling.
We have had embassies with Equilism for over 7 years and 65 days. They are one of our longest reigning embassy. When they came to me with this proposal, I checked this out. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is doing its job before it agrees to anything. I've also asked the Foreign Affairs Committee to meet with us to discuss the agendas.


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Edited by Wonder Woman, Jul 11 2018, 07:30:05 AM.
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Marrabuk
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Jul 11 2018, 07:23:58 AM
Marrabuk
Jul 11 2018, 02:51:35 AM
I agree and echo the statements made above. First of all, they're a UCR. We haven't had any embassies with them. I also think they have more to gain than us in the following section

4),8) and) 9). I feel that they have more to gain than us because we have a stronger military than them. Especially our military combined with fellow Pacifica regions like the NPO who will always have our back.

Therefore, I believe this treaty will strengthen them than us. As the second largest region in game, I don't feel we need to strenghten and give bragging rights to a, for a lack of better word, weakling.
We have had embassies with Equilism for over 7 years and 65 days. They are one of our longest reigning embassy. When they came to me with this proposal, I checked this out. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is doing its job before it agrees to anything. I've also asked the Foreign Affairs Committee to meet with us to discuss the agendas.


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But still, on points 4,8 and 9. I still believe they have more to gain than us.
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Zukchiva
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I hate to sound like a broken record here, but the other Magisters are correct. A good treaty is one where both parties receive equal benefits from it. Otherwise, it isn't a good treaty at all, just one party relying on the other party for what it needs.

Also, the fact that some members of TEP don't even know what this region is startles me. Granted not everyone will know what all our embassies with other regions are. However to see two Magisters not knowing that we have embassies with this region for 7 years goes to show that our relations with them have been pushed aside and forgotten publicly. I think that before even working on a treaty with them, we need to start having more interactions with them as a region, and revive our relations.
Edited by Zukchiva, Jul 11 2018, 10:31:03 AM.
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United Massachusetts
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Honestly, I'm not sure I want to endorse Equilism's colonisation of a game-created region, particularly when Equilism has less than 100 members to its name. Opposed.
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