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| Beijing 2008 Olympic Games???; I don't know | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 6 2005, 08:31:49 PM (1,637 Views) | |
| Republic of Blanchettia | Jun 6 2005, 08:31:49 PM Post #1 |
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"Carpe Diem" - Seize the day, EP Chief Auto Expert
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I don't know about you, but since this is happening in RL in an area that we RP every day . . . I came across the Reporters Without Borders website and they have a petition for the boycott of the Beijing Games. (URL:http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=174) To be honest, I'm forced to agree with them. Why do we need an Olympic Games in a country that violates human rights and always suppresses and censors its media? I'm seeing a repeat of the 1936 Games coming our way. Wanna sign the petition? Be my guest - I already did. ![]() ![]() ![]() All photos from RSF. |
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Sincerely yours, Daniel Blanchette Blanchettian Ambassador to the East Pacific Community Blanchettian Ambassador to the UN
Quote from an episode of "As Time Goes By". Official Homepage of the Government of the Republic of Blanchettia (still being developed) Anxiety is a sign that G-d didn't intend you to do that in the first place.
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| Krechzianko | Jun 6 2005, 09:01:25 PM Post #2 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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No offense, but screw this. Americans are just pissed that China's economy is gonna kick our asses soon. While I'm not trying to stop you, and China's human rights abuses are a bad thing, there are many other things we should be fighting against first. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 6 2005, 09:02:19 PM Post #3 |
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Number One Drone
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Yes, because killing thousands of people has everything to do with the economy... EDIT: Well, in a way, it does..but I think the point still stands. EDIT #2: And even if the backdrop to the attempt at boycotting is American anger that China is pwning America economically, the point still stands...this doesn't have to do with economic issues. It has to do with civil rights. The two can be interrelated, but in this case, I don't think the interrelation really matters. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 6 2005, 09:04:27 PM Post #4 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Killing thousands? I agree that theey've done bad things with human rights and should stop them, don't you think we should be more worried about the massacres in the Sudan or the slaughter in Iraq? Anyway, the olympics have no effect on this. Would you protest holding the olympics in America because of our murder of Iraqi innocents? |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 6 2005, 09:06:03 PM Post #5 |
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Number One Drone
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"Crap, I missed a terrorist and hit a civilian." is ever so slightly different then, "You don't agree with me! Die!" Edit: As to holding the olympics in the US...I doubt the UN would get away with it. Your right. People would boycott us. It doesn't mean we can't boycott China. EDIT #2:It just means were hypocritical in doing so. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 6 2005, 09:15:02 PM Post #6 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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You really think that we're accidentally killing all of them?
Really? Thye didn't boycott the winter olympics in Utah, to my recollection.
Exactly my point. Anyway, I'm not saying that you shouldn't protest, by any means. I'm simply opposed to it, but I respect your right to protest as you please. I'm aware that China has many problems with human rights. However, their evils are minor compared to thousands that go totally unnoticed. All over the world, innocents die by the tens of thousands. I feel that we should concentrate on these before protesting an olympic event. Don't get me wrong; I'd love for China to be 1) More socialist, and 2) more democratic and 'friendly', but there are many other nations with hideous human rights abuses that no one seems to care about. That;s my only problem with things like this... ...Also, I think that public opposition to China's policy has been too heavily influenced by the Tienamen Square massacre. They have changed since 1989, and we need to realize that. There's still much progress to be made, but they aren't nearly as bad as they once were. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 6 2005, 09:16:31 PM Post #7 |
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Number One Drone
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Points taken... As to Utah...were we in Iraq yet? |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 6 2005, 09:22:29 PM Post #8 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Hmm...you may have me there. I'm not sure what year that was, to be honest. Anyway, FPS (and Blach, too), sorry to get carried away and all that. I get rather over-the-top when it comes to political debate. I haven't had a good argument for some time, so I think I go crazy when I finally get into one... |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Krechzianko | Jun 6 2005, 09:30:45 PM Post #9 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Oh, one last thing...I'm gonna try to stay civil here.
I hardly think we can compare Adolf Hitler's Germany to China. China is a progressive nation with strong ties to many nations and few real enemies. They have little interest in territorial expansion beyond Taiwan (which, IMO, should be theirs anyway), and they're not ruled by a lunatic dictator. I really don't think that you can say China is anywhere near as awful as Nazi Germany.
New York 2012, baby! There, I'm finished. No more crazed rudeness from me... |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Kelssek | Jun 7 2005, 03:17:37 AM Post #10 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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Personally I strongly dislike China, and this kind of puts me in a spot when America does nasty things to them which I don't like either. They are extremely belligerent in their foreign policy, routinely suppress dissent, and stoke nationalist passions over dubious issues (like the recent Japanese textbook row, consult previous argument on this) which to me seems very Orwellian. You could say it's just a crude way of doing what America does much more diplomatically and covertly, but at least there are many things Americans have right. Not violently murdering dissidents or arbitrarily imprisoning them, for one thing. (Don't bring up Gitmo, that's a different issue and in my opinion is more specific to Bush than to America) I also don't believe Taiwan should be part of China unless a significant majority of Taiwanese are for it. They already are a proto-state, and looking at what's happened in Hong Kong politics recently it's pretty easy to see why anyone would be reluctant to put themselves under the Chinese government. That one I think is up to them but I personally cannot see any reason Taiwan must be unified with China, besides, of course, the threat of starting World War 3 which would not exist if China wasn't so damn belligerent about it. That said, what can be accomplished by boycotting the Beijing Olympics? You're not going to bring down the Chinese government because you're watching Survivor instead of the 100m final. Neither is a boycott likely to be significant enough to make them lose money on the infrastructure and the stadiums, unless you get the whole world to join in. Put simply, what's the point? Sidenote to FPS: The International Olympic Committee (IOC), decides where the Olympics is held, and not the UN. The two are not related. New York 2012 is unlikely for the simple reason that Vancouver is hosting 2010. Sorry, we beat you to it. |
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| Codex | Jun 7 2005, 05:14:15 AM Post #11 |
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Arbiter of Succession
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Ney York 2012 is also slightly dubious on the basis that the Atlanta olympics were a shambles... when you compare them to the Sydney olympics 4 years later... If we're assuming a basically Western moral perspective, which is probably the case, then yes, China has quite a way to go in establishing a firm human rights base. On the other hand, from my perspective, the West is generally going the other way, so we should at least congratulate China for heading in the right direction. The issue about America's own dubious record on human rights is worth noting, though I'm not going to make a big issue out of it, since it's not the major issue. Whatever the nature of the country at the time, to boycott an olympics on the basis of politics. It's petty. We're not talking international approval of their human rights policy, we're talking participating in a sports competition. There's also something to be said for using the games in the spirit of encouraging human rights. I find it very similar to a case that's been more prominent around here recently... there was, briefly, an academic boycott of Israeli universities. Now, much as I detest Israel's foreign policy and human rights record, neither academia nor sports should be used as instruments of governmental policy... they should be above that. |
Our Superiority is not a Complex
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| Krechzianko | Jun 7 2005, 09:42:51 AM Post #12 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Codex and Kelssek are always voices of reason, even if I don't agree with them. *bows* |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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| Raikatuji | Jun 8 2005, 04:17:09 AM Post #13 |
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Fridge Owl
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I don't think I will sign up to boycott the Chinese Olympics. I am trying to convince the financial committee that I am part of to get some investments in China. If I am to be proved right then I need the Chinese Olympics to be a resounding success. I'm looking forward to next month as the city for the Olympics 2012 will be released. I hope London will get it. Even if Paris gets it I should be able to go. I was present for the Olympics in Athens and I should be able to see the Olympics in either London or Paris. New York and Russia are definetly out of the race. |
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| Republic of Blanchettia | Jun 8 2005, 06:40:36 AM Post #14 |
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"Carpe Diem" - Seize the day, EP Chief Auto Expert
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Raikatuji: You'd want Beijing 2008 to go on even though the Chinese massacre Tibetans and Uighurs every day and suppresses press freedom? |
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Sincerely yours, Daniel Blanchette Blanchettian Ambassador to the East Pacific Community Blanchettian Ambassador to the UN
Quote from an episode of "As Time Goes By". Official Homepage of the Government of the Republic of Blanchettia (still being developed) Anxiety is a sign that G-d didn't intend you to do that in the first place.
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| Kelssek | Jun 8 2005, 07:01:51 AM Post #15 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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Even if no one turned up, even if China loses on its investments in the facilities, even if the IOC decided to yank the 2008 Olympics for some reason, that will change nothing. China will go on killing and imprisoning people it doesn't like, and they will still be screaming at any world leader who visits Taiwan. The US threatening to bring most of the west to boycott the Moscow Olympics did nothing to stop the Afghanistan invasion. The USSR boycotting the Los Angeles Olympics in retaliation was even more petty. Neither action accomplished anything besides making the USA and the USSR look really childish. What makes boycotting 2008 any different? |
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| Raikatuji | Jun 8 2005, 07:30:00 AM Post #16 |
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Fridge Owl
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I believe that the Beijing Olympics will bring a lot of benefit economically to the whole region. Further more I believe that each country has a system that works best for that particular country. The generic concept of democracy that is prevalent in most of the world need not be the best system in place. I do not deny that "attrocities" are commited. However I see that issue as seperate and must be handled differently. The earlier China and India become economic power houses the better it is going to be for the world. |
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| Republic of Blanchettia | Jun 8 2005, 10:02:20 AM Post #17 |
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"Carpe Diem" - Seize the day, EP Chief Auto Expert
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Yea, China might be an economic superpower some day, but here are the facts about China: 1. Most of China's economic structure is outdated. Even if you think that the Soviet system was bad, the Maoist system makes it even worse. Yes, there is some capitalism in China, but a huge problem with this is that many of the economic laws surrounding China are outdated and date from the 1950s. The 1950s!!!! 2. China routinely censors it media (which is government-owned, operated, and controlled, by the way), which consists of China National Radio (CNR), China Radio International (CRI), China Central Television (CCTV), China Educational Television (CETV), and provincial radio and television stations, in addition to stations broadcasting towards Vietnam and Taiwan. All those organs are owned by the Central People's Broadcasting System (CPBS), which in turn is owned by the State Administration for Radio, Film, and Television (SARFT). What bothers me is that there is no independent media in the PRC - if you listen to/watch foreign radio/TV broadcasts, if you open a newspaper, if you operate an "unlicensed" web site, if you operate a TV station, or even if you operate a radio station, you go to jail. How can the Chinese be truly informed of what's going on if the SARFT suppresses and censors its media??? 3. Recently, the calls for democracy in the PRC get stronger and stronger by the day. Yet the PLA tries to destroy the pro-democracy movement. Why is that? They want to have sole control of China, and feel threatened. So, they put the blame on other groups that have nothing to do with it. They persecute Tibetans, Uighurs, members of Falun Dafa, students, Roman Catholics, Therevada Buddhists, Muslims, and others who are "enemies of the state". Does this sound like Hitler's Germany? Of course it does. The Nazis feared that they would lose control, so they highly persecuted Jews, as well as Catholics, homosexuals, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, the disabled, and others who did not fit the so-called "Aryan" ideal. There are SO many parallels between Nazi Germany and the PRC that you wouldn't even realize. For instance, did you know that Hitler hated Boy Scouts? And the PRC also hates Boy Scouts? Thus, Boy Scouts was banned in the Nazi state and is currently banned in the PRC. The PRC won't try to introduce democracy in their country. 4. Which leads me to the PRC/ROC debate. Personally, I don't think that the PRC is acting towards the Chinese consensus. The ROC (Taiwan), however, IMHO, does. Taiwan is growing so rapidly that the PRC can't compete, even if Taiwanese drivers are more crazy than Chinese drivers. What scares the PRC to death is the fact that Taiwan has democracy. Taiwan is the antithesis of the PRC. They fear that the US will switch relations to Taiwan. Yes, there may be corruption in Taiwan, but in the PRC it's rampant, and you don't hear about it. If Taiwan declares independence (which it looks like it will), this'll set off a chain reaction that Taiwan would be prepared for, but not the Chinese. The PRC also fears that the ROC would try to invade their country with the assistance of the United States. That's why the PRC has been acting strange lately. 5. Complicating the situation even further is Tibet. Since the illegal Chinese occupation of Tibet began in 1950, more than a million Tibetans have died at the hands of the PLA. The Dalai Lama is in exile, and his Lamaist (Tibetan Buddhist) followers, more specifically priests, monks, and nuns, are suffering greatly. The Dalai Lama has called for Tibet's independence, but the PRC won't let it happen, because Beijing thinks that Lhasa (Tibet's capital) is part of China, when in fact it's two separate countries altogether. And the PRC tries to interfere with the Tibetan government so that it would be subservient to the PRC, which is dreadful. For once, the Dalai Lama should rule over a free, peaceful Tibet, but he can't - he rules only Dharmsala in India. Because of these reasons, and others, (and Krech this is aimed at one of your comments) the 2008 Beijing Games will be a parallel to the 1936 Berlin Games. The 1936 Games was a complete sham because Hitler tried to fix it (with Jesse Owens being the exception) so that only Germans would win. I'll bet you the Central Committee of the CCP will be trying to find ways of fixing the 2008 Games so that only Chinese athletes would win, which violates the spirit of the Olympics altogether. This is why I signed the boycott. |
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Sincerely yours, Daniel Blanchette Blanchettian Ambassador to the East Pacific Community Blanchettian Ambassador to the UN
Quote from an episode of "As Time Goes By". Official Homepage of the Government of the Republic of Blanchettia (still being developed) Anxiety is a sign that G-d didn't intend you to do that in the first place.
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| Krechzianko | Jun 8 2005, 10:43:53 AM Post #18 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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What reason do you have to believe that they will fix the games in their favor, Blanch? Xenophobia? What makes you think the US doesn't fix their olympic events?
Blanch, you make it sound like China's not an economic superpower yet. That counldn't be more wrong! They are already gaining more economic power than America, and their currency is being kept at an artificially stable level, something we Americans are unable to do. Their military is gaining power, and new European weaponry will bring them into the 21st-century easily. Gambling along the southern coast is letting the economy skyrocket, but the biggest issue is: -Low-interest loans. China is giving America loans which are keeping the federal reserve from collapsing. The current housing bubble was caused entirely buy Chinese bond purchases, and mortgage rates could shoot up as high as 25% (or higher) if they decided to stop giving us the loans and buying our bonds. This would lead to a lack of commercial purchases and could send the economy into a recession or, God forbid, a depression. China seems like a backwards, crazy country, but they currently own America's very economy. If they should choose to demand repayment of their loans, we would have two choices: 1) Scrape up enough money to pay them, and annihilate what remains of the reserve, or 2) Refuse, causing our allies to lose what little trust they have in us and causing all foreign powers to stop providing us with the loans we so desperately need. If it got bad enough, this could lead to a Sino-American war. A brief note on Taiwan, as well: Taiwan is a place that everyone thinks will eventually gain its independence because the US likes 'em. Wrong. If China surrounded Taiwan, they could take control of the island in three weeks, according to Taiwanese gov't estimates. America would innefectually threaten China, and they would counter by waving the loans in our face. We'd back down, Taiwan's stock market would crumble in minutes, and they'd give in to China's overwhelming force. Tibet: Tibet is a province of China and has been so for quite some time. China has every right to retain control of it, as it is a part of China itself. Would we grant Alaska independence if they simnply asked for it? BTW, even the Dalai Lama is opposed to Tibetan independence. He supports cultural autonomy; the movement to give them independence is in actuality opposed to their own leader's beliefs. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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Jun 11 2005, 01:08:12 PM Post #19 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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The United States should boycott the games, and most other nations should as well, for their human rights violations, which they continue to deny, for their refusal to admit what happeend about Tianamen and prosecute those responsible for murder, and for refusing to recognise the legitimate nation of Taiwan. |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 11 2005, 01:21:48 PM Post #20 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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'Legitimate' my eye. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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Jun 11 2005, 03:56:31 PM Post #21 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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they are a sovereign nation and must be recognised as such. If I were US president, which I can't be, then I would fully recognise Taiwan as a nation and have economic sanctions on the PRC, and increase trade to India and rest of SE asia instead. |
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| Kelssek | Jun 11 2005, 08:35:21 PM Post #22 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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Govindia, such a move is likely to start World War 3. Besides, so many US consumer products are imported from China. Such a move would be clearly insane, and besides the corporations, especially those with their fingers in the retailing business, would take away their campaign donations. The wonder of the American oligarchy. |
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Jun 11 2005, 08:51:00 PM Post #23 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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So if companies can be convinced that doing business with one dictatorship like Burma is bad (according to a recent Wall Street Journal article) then so can they about a similar country like the PRC, and be convinced that it'd be better business to work with a democratic country like India, which would have more people than China within the next 2-3 decades anyhow. |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 11 2005, 09:23:15 PM Post #24 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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More people, but not more of a new consumer base. India is already open and capitalistic; China is full of 1 billion new consumers itching to buy western goods. India's already being worked over, and China's the new hot spot. Anyway, China's manufacturing power is immense. Creating sanctions would destroy America's economy and, more than likely, start a war. If you read my above posts, you'll see that China is basically controlling our economy at the moment. Read this article to see what I mean... |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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Jun 12 2005, 04:30:09 PM Post #25 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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We can compensate by going to India and the other SE Asian countries and boosting trade with them. Look how big all the sectors - manufacturing, health, tech, etc. in India is growing. They're ripe for foreign investment. |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 12 2005, 04:39:23 PM Post #26 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Corporations are always hungry to open brand new markets, though. They're obsessed with China. It has about as many citizens as India, and that's 1 billion more consumers. If a company wants to maximize profit, it'll go to India and China. And all companies want to maximize profit... |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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Jun 12 2005, 04:42:05 PM Post #27 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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Yes, concerned with making profit yes, but they also think logically as well. If India would bring more money and attract better investment, they'd go for them, not China. If I were an investor, I'd definitely put my $ into India, not China. Ask any economist and they'll most likely agree. |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 12 2005, 05:23:55 PM Post #28 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Y'see, that's the problem. It doesn't. And you can't say "if the government placed sanctions on China, they'd go elsewhere", because the government serves businesses these days, not vice-versa. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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Jun 12 2005, 05:49:20 PM Post #29 |
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The Fluffy Horde
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Not always. The government serves the best interests of the majority of the people, while recognising the concerns of the minority as well. |
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| Krechzianko | Jun 12 2005, 07:54:02 PM Post #30 |
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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If you say so... Yyou sound like one of us liberals (unless you are liberal). we always think that there may be some good left in the government, sorta like Padme with Anakin...the truth is, the republican party isolated and killed the good and kept only a small sample for testing purposes. |
![]() "Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over." -Soul Cancer "Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS ![]()
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3:27 AM Jul 11