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Beijing 2008 Olympic Games???; I don't know
Topic Started: Jun 6 2005, 08:31:49 PM (1,638 Views)
Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Jun 12 2005, 08:54 PM
If you say so...

Yyou sound like one of us liberals (unless you are liberal). we always think that there may be some good left in the government, sorta like Padme with Anakin...the truth is, the republican party isolated and killed the good and kept only a small sample for testing purposes.

Ha, I'm not a liberal.

I'm a Anti-Communist Conservate-Moderate Republican Indo-Malaysian Singaporean American from PA :P
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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Republic of Govindia
Jun 12 2005, 01:51 AM
So if companies can be convinced that doing business with one dictatorship like Burma is bad (according to a recent Wall Street Journal article) then so can they about a similar country like the PRC, and be convinced that it'd be better business to work with a democratic country like India, which would have more people than China within the next 2-3 decades anyhow.

Apples and oranges. Burma is a tiny economy with little industry compared to China, which is the world's manufacturing powerhouse.

Not much is lost by not trading with Burma, on the other hand, at this point pulling all the American money out of China would be very messy.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Kelssek
Jun 12 2005, 10:28 PM
Republic of Govindia
Jun 12 2005, 01:51 AM
So if companies can be convinced that doing business with one dictatorship like Burma is bad (according to a recent Wall Street Journal article) then so can they about a similar country like the PRC, and be convinced that it'd be better business to work with a democratic country like India, which would have more people than China within the next 2-3 decades anyhow.

Apples and oranges. Burma is a tiny economy with little industry compared to China, which is the world's manufacturing powerhouse.

Not much is lost by not trading with Burma, on the other hand, at this point pulling all the American money out of China would be very messy.

Well, with them in the UN, we're pretty much one of the few nations that tries to bring them to task with their violations, but someone has to do it.
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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Burma or China? I'm not too familiar with UN stuff on them, care to elaborate?
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Kelssek
Jun 12 2005, 11:20 PM
Burma or China? I'm not too familiar with UN stuff on them, care to elaborate?

Burma - military junta, human rights violations, has jailed activist Aung San Suu Kyi in her home, and has run the country for over a decade this way

China - dictatorship, hhuman rights violations, quash down every motion we bring to UN rapping them for their human rights violations
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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Well, with them in the UN, we're pretty much one of the few nations that tries to bring them to task with their violations, but someone has to do it.


You're kidding, right? America doesn't complain about China's human rights at all. We can't; we have to be subservient to them. It's a new system for many Americans, and you may find it hard to believe, but they actually have more leverage than we do.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Republic of Govindia
Jun 13 2005, 03:42 AM
Burma - military junta, human rights violations, has jailed activist Aung San Suu Kyi in her home, and has run the country for over a decade this way

China - dictatorship, hhuman rights violations, quash down every motion we bring to UN rapping them for their human rights violations

I meant the resolutions themselves. I'm quite sure the UN passed one regarding Ang San Suu Kyi, but I don't recall any specific ones dealing with China's evil deeds. In any case, it's not as if the US has been particularly compliant with the UN either, so it's a little hypocritical and not really the best basis to take issue with what China's government gets up to.

The abuses they do are bad. It's not bad because it violates a treaty or a resolution, it's bad because most of us recognise it as bad.

Krech is right though, the US usually looks the other way for reasons economic and political. Unlike you, I'm cynical as hell.
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Codex
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Arbiter of Succession
I'd also like to point out that the US has an appalling record of bringing other countries (irrelevant of their own record) to task on human rights abuse. They continually use their SC veto to dismiss resolutions condemning Israel's human rights abuse, often against otherwise unanimous approval.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Kelssek
Jun 13 2005, 11:07 AM
Republic of Govindia
Jun 13 2005, 03:42 AM
Burma - military junta, human rights violations, has jailed activist Aung San Suu Kyi in her home, and has run the country for over a decade this way

China - dictatorship, hhuman rights violations, quash down every motion we bring to UN rapping them for their human rights violations

I meant the resolutions themselves. I'm quite sure the UN passed one regarding Ang San Suu Kyi, but I don't recall any specific ones dealing with China's evil deeds. In any case, it's not as if the US has been particularly compliant with the UN either, so it's a little hypocritical and not really the best basis to take issue with what China's government gets up to.

The abuses they do are bad. It's not bad because it violates a treaty or a resolution, it's bad because most of us recognise it as bad.

Krech is right though, the US usually looks the other way for reasons economic and political. Unlike you, I'm cynical as hell.

The US has consistently brought up a UN resolution to the HR commission and the UN itself condemning china's human rights abuses, and China's stuck it down. We are one of their most vocal of critics when it comes to them committing human rights violations. And yes we've have. I've seen it on BBC and on the american news networks here at various times.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Codex
Jun 13 2005, 12:13 PM
I'd also like to point out that the US has an appalling record of bringing other countries (irrelevant of their own record) to task on human rights abuse. They continually use their SC veto to dismiss resolutions condemning Israel's human rights abuse, often against otherwise unanimous approval.

I'd like to point that the UN has become increasing anti-Israel, and would do anything to show it - I'd like to point out that the UN World Court ruling ordering them to tear down the barrier that deters terrorist, they said that Israel started the 1948-1949 war, when it was 5 arab nations that attacked them and wanted to wipe them off the map, and pretty much were at war with Israel for the next 30 years after....this was said by the judge from China, a country that has blatant human rights violations, from Tiananment to the Falung Gong sect to pro-democracy activists and more.
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
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We are one of their most vocal of critics when it comes to them committing human rights violations.


You're totally wrong. We are simply unable to criticize them, you see, just as a nation like Mexico would be unlikely to be over-critical of us. You must understand that the US has a great deal of debt to China; they keep our interest rates cheap in exchange for relative silence abput their abuses.

I'm sorry to tell you this, Gov, but the American government doesn't always do what's right.

Quote:
 

I'd like to point that the UN has become increasing anti-Israel, and would do anything to show it


You realize that Israel destroys villages regularly and shoots anyone who opposes their anti-Muslim regime?

Quote:
 
ordering them to tear down the barrier that deters terrorist


...Just as the Great Wall deterred barbarians. It was a wall to keep out Palestinian settlement and mark Israel's claims. Terrorists can easily bypass a wall, you may be surprised to know.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Republic of Govindia
Jun 13 2005, 08:53 PM
I'd like to point that the UN has become increasing anti-Israel, and would do anything to show it - I'd like to point out that the UN World Court ruling ordering them to tear down the barrier that deters terrorist

The UN is representative of the world's governments. If it's anti-Israel, it's because the world is sick of Israel killing people indiscriminately and attacking civillian towns with rockets as retaliation for terrorist attacks. The wall is illegal and should not have been allowed.

And if "anti-Israel" resolutions are getting passed, not only is the majority of the world unhappy about what Israel is doing, but so is the US, which very often vetoes such resolutions but occasionally is forced to let a few slip through.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Meh....as much as I would like to debate politics in a civil and friendly manner, I 1. don't really have the time to do that, and 2. Have other things to be concerned about, and 3. Besides, we're getting a bit off topic here....

My thoughts I guess are this:
So China gets the games. Disappointed I am that they are getting it for 2008 for reasons above, but do nothing about it I can. All I wish now is that when the games occur, the atmosphere is well, there are no incidents that show lack of sportsmanship, and participants and attendants to the games get treated fairly by everyone there.

Nuff said.
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