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[ALLI]Invasion of Heann; Recent Invasion
Topic Started: Jun 29 2005, 03:13:35 PM (614 Views)
Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Krechzianko is already sending a naval squadron and marine unit to blockade Heann from any foreign instigators. Any attempts by a nation, EPTO or otherwise, to enter the island will be met with force.

Krechzianko will not allow a war to start over this simply because people don't like Vladistock's foreign policy. The last time this happened, the EP was nearly destroyed.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Krechzianko
Jul 2 2005, 05:44 PM
Krechzianko is already sending a naval squadron and marine unit to blockade Heann from any foreign instigators. Any attempts by a nation, EPTO or otherwise, to enter the island will be met with force.

Krechzianko will not allow a war to start over this simply because people don't like Vladistock's foreign policy. The last time this happened, the EP was nearly destroyed.

The Krechziankan representative does realize how hipocritical this action is? In multiple ways, too.

"I'm going to get involved in foreign affairs to keep others from getting involved in foreign affairs."

"I'm going to blow anyone who comes near up to keep them from blowing other people up."

I would like to note, for the record, that a conflict between EPTO nations would result in the activation of the Mutual Defense Pact for whichever nation is fired upon.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
This is hardly a hypocritical act. We shall not attack any military forces unless they attempt to initiate a conflict between themselves and Vladistock Island. Krechzianko's relations with our former enemy have improved, and we shall not stand by while Xiopothos and Govindia attempt to start a war with Vladistock. Their invasion of Heann may not have been morally just, but EPTO's purpose is not to prevent every conflict in the EP. Our purpose is to serve as an alliance for mutual military cooperation among member nations.

Had Govindia and Xiopothos considered occupation of Heann before Vladistock's conquest of the island, we would not have been so vocal in our opposition. A war could have been averted had that been the case. But now, Heann is under complete occupation. Landing troops there would be nothing less than an act of war.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Krechzianko
Jul 2 2005, 06:31 PM
Had Govindia and Xiopothos considered occupation of Heann before Vladistock's conquest of the island, we would not have been so vocal in our opposition. A war could have been averted had that been the case. But now, Heann is under complete occupation. Landing troops there would be nothing less than an act of war.

The island was taken over the course of several hours. Not a lot of time to examine the situation and take action.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
That is unfortunate, but it is the case.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Free Pacific States
Jul 2 2005, 03:41 PM
Krechzianko
Jul 2 2005, 06:31 PM
Had Govindia and Xiopothos considered occupation of Heann before Vladistock's conquest of the island, we would not have been so vocal in our opposition.  A war could have been averted had that been the case.  But now, Heann is under complete occupation.  Landing troops there would be nothing less than an act of war.

The island was taken over the course of several hours. Not a lot of time to examine the situation and take action.

I would support the action I gave.

And as for the atrocities you did against your own people, OOC I wholeheartedly condemn it, and if found out IC I would condemn it and do whatever is necessary to bring justice for such war crimes.

Secondly, you are a hypocrite. You're a dictatorship and you're head of an organisation that is supposed to promote freedom and democracy. You are against "imperialistic" activities, yet support the imperialist expansion that Vladistock is doing against a sovereign nation, which had no quarrel with Vladistock or any other nation.

We must hold true to the ideals of the EPTO and send in aid, both humanitarian and military aid. Like FPS and Xiopothos, I would back them, both with humanitarian aid and military forces. I still have the 7th Fleet in the region, and my clone forces of the First Army nearby that can come fairly quickly.

Upon doing a force analysis of your forces vs. mine, you would not stand a chance against me alone if I tried to oppose Vlad's invasion militarily. I would have 30 ships, including 4-5 battleships, a carrier, and an amphibious assault ship, in addition to 60,000 marines. Add to that, the First Army with 4 Star Destroyers and 2 Assault Ships and 32,000 clones led by two Elven Jedi Masters, and I would have enough, in addition to Xiopothos's forces, to take you on if you try to oppose our forces sending aid, as well as Govindian starships bombarding both Krechziankan and Vlad military targets.

What Vlad was done is hypocritical to what happeend when the SOL struck. It was unjust, unprovoked, and uncalled for, and the atrocities committed constitute war crimes. The EPTO must stand against this, especially the Secretary-General, or new leadership in the EPTO that will not stand for the attack in Heann must be needed immediately.
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Quote:
 
Secondly, you are a hypocrite. You're a dictatorship and you're head of an organisation that is supposed to promote freedom and democracy. You are against "imperialistic" activities, yet support the imperialist expansion that Vladistock is doing against a sovereign nation, which had no quarrel with Vladistock or any other nation.


Harsh words; I suggest you do your research. Firstly, Krechzianko is not, in RP, a dictatorship. We hold elections which, though slightly crooked, still give the people a voice.

I am opposed to imperialism when it could lead to a massive world war. I didn't support Vladistocks actions per se, but I won't allow other nations to march in and start a war with them over it.

Quote:
 

Upon doing a force analysis of your forces vs. mine, you would not stand a chance against me alone if I tried to oppose Vlad's invasion militarily. I would have 30 ships, including 4-5 battleships, a carrier, and an amphibious assault ship, in addition to 60,000 marines. Add to that, the First Army with 4 Star Destroyers and 2 Assault Ships and 32,000 clones led by two Elven Jedi Masters, and I would have enough, in addition to Xiopothos's forces, to take you on if you try to oppose our forces sending aid, as well as Govindian starships bombarding both Krechziankan and Vlad military targets.


I take this as a threat and, should it happen again, I will do everything in my power to expel you from EPTO. Anything further than that, and I won't hesitate to declare war - in spite of your Star Wars godmodding.

Quote:
 
in addition to Xiopothos's forces


Xiopothos and Krechzianko are relatively close allies, and though we disagree on this issue, he is more cool-headed than yourself; I sincerely doubt that he'd go to war with me simply because you told him to.

Quote:
 
or new leadership in the EPTO that will not stand for the attack in Heann must be needed immediately.


I support democracy. If anyone wishes to kick me out of the Secretary-General position, say it now.

I'm not going to enter a flamewar, so I suggest that you don't try any out-of-line tactics in this debate.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Jul 3 2005, 11:46 PM
Quote:
 
Harsh words; I suggest you do your research. Firstly, Krechzianko is not, in RP, a dictatorship. We hold elections which, though slightly crooked, still give the people a voice.

I am opposed to imperialism when it could lead to a massive world war. I didn't support Vladistocks actions per se, but I won't allow other nations to march in and start a war with them over it. QUOTE]


and therein lies your hypocrisy. You are against imperialism, yet you wont condemn the actions that Vlad did persay. Xiopothos, myself and whoever else voted are actually trying to do something, and military aid must be sent to stop the killing and to protect the humanitarian workers, or it's going to turn into another Trioni, short of nuclear exchange.

And your country is a dictatorship if you are slaughtering people who disagree or have to rig elections to have your way.

It's one thing to watch a country destroy itself and do nothing, but watching as a peaceful country get invaded by a neighbour with no real way to defend themselves against an unjustified unprovoked attack is wrong. Can you not see that?

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Gnidrah
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Former Delegate
(Okay, I'm not putting this out to be attacked, myself, but it's possible and I realize this. You're welcome to agree or disagree with me as either choice would be your choice and opinion.)

We need to put an end to the ongoing set of insults. While each person who produces an insult might think they are effective, collectively the insults are quite the opposite. In fact, they only hender moving towards getting any positive objectives done.

We also need to stop the threats. It's bad when member nations of an alliance are insulting and threatening one another. This too gets us no where but bad places. I don't know about you, but I would rather us be improving, going towards the good places!

Now, once these are out of the way, we can continue on with our civilized debates, and begin to make compromises, so we can come to an agreement of some sort. This is necessary to get any of our goals and objectives in EPTO accomplished. Focus, here.

Know who your leaders are in this coalition, and respect them. If you don't agree with them, let them know you disagree, but do it in an appropriate manner. If most of your fellow members disagree with the leaders, get together and vote them out.

If you disagree with everything, and don't like the direction things are going, but you are pretty much alone in that state, you're welcome to resign. But don't drag everyone else with you while you're going. It's not right to pull other people down.

Aside from the above, respect your fellow members, no matter what rank or status they are. We should all be friends, comrades here! With that said, let's work together, and get things done.
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The Wachovia Coalition
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I'll look into the voting as an admin. For future reference, requests like this should be made via pm or im. I can't possibly read all these threads and neither can Loop.
"Unity through humility"
Currently in the region as Wachoviasa.

"[NationStates] is like watching a movie that is Black Hawk Down vs. Lord of the Rings vs. Star Wars..." - New Fubaria
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Well said, Gnidrah. Common sense is far more effective than endless arguing.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Jul 4 2005, 09:39 AM
Well said, Gnidrah. Common sense is far more effective than endless arguing.

Yes, Gnidrah's right. We've been letting our own nation's ideals get the best of us, instead of using them towards the ideals of the EPTO.

We need to find some common ground here for this issue.

It looks like we agree to send in humanitarian aid, but military aid will also be needed for the following purposes:

1. Protect the humanitarian aid workers
2. Help distribute the aid
3. Provide other logistical services
4. Defend the civilian areas should Vlad attack more of them.
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
That's acceptable. As this is not an emergency situation, the EAF won't be necessary. However, the Krech marines and sailors in my Sulu Squadron (the one that threatened you) can manage those tasks for now. If anyone wishes to send more troops, by all means do so.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
OOC: Thanks, Wachovia, I'll keep that in mind.

On another note...ya'll really need to start making a boundary between OOC and IC. Govindia was using points he couldn't possibly ICly know of in order to fight Krech, and Krech was blatantly insulting Govindia, not the Govindian nation. OOC reasoning should never be used to support something IC.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Yeah, I know...but we're done now, so it's no longer a problem (I hope).

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Jul 4 2005, 10:57 AM
That's acceptable. As this is not an emergency situation, the EAF won't be necessary. However, the Krech marines and sailors in my Sulu Squadron (the one that threatened you) can manage those tasks for now. If anyone wishes to send more troops, by all means do so.

That's fine. I can send in all my forces or depending on if Vlad let's me land in his area so I can help him out against the SOL menace, a smaller amount.

But I'd like to be in charge of the EPTO efforts in Heann, even though the EAF rapid reaction force won't be sent.
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Sure. Krechzianko will send what it can from that naval squadron, but you can manage most of the operation...unless anyone is opposed to that idea, of course.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Jul 4 2005, 01:04 PM
Sure. Krechzianko will send what it can from that naval squadron, but you can manage most of the operation...unless anyone is opposed to that idea, of course.

Most, i thought the whole operation i'd manage?

so what action should we propose come to a vote, with some way to resolve a tie?
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Well, at the moment, we all agree upon providing humanitarian aid. I suggest we do that.

I then suggest that we take to an actual vote (not the poll kind, but actual statement voting) in order to see the alliance's position. We have 6 currently active members..if 4 go one way or the other, then that side wins.

If its a tie, then it would probably got to the SecGen for decision.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
All right, I'll start something official soon, not another poll, but as you described?
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Republic of Govindia
Jul 9 2005, 12:08 PM
All right, I'll start something official soon, not another poll, but as you described?

Actually, it'd be Krechs job, as SecGen, to open another thread asking for called out votes on the issue of sending the EAF into Heann.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Free Pacific States
Jul 9 2005, 10:32 AM
Republic of Govindia
Jul 9 2005, 12:08 PM
All right, I'll start something official soon, not another poll, but as you described?

Actually, it'd be Krechs job, as SecGen, to open another thread asking for called out votes on the issue of sending the EAF into Heann.

we are not allowed to introduce proposals as well??/
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Its not a proposal, its a vote. This thread was the proposal.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Free Pacific States
Jul 9 2005, 02:12 PM
Its not a proposal, its a vote. This thread was the proposal.

all right, well i suggset Krech put a vote to what I proposed earlier in this thread.....not sure if you guys remember what i proposed...
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
For the moment, I suggest we drop this. Whilst FPS recognizes and officially condemns the invasion, with the current Pax threat, and the disagreement within this alliance..I do not believe it will be a good idea to go to war. I'd suggest we all agree to publicly condemn the attack, and to offer humanitarian aid, as a compromise, however, military support is a bad idea."
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Gnidrah
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Former Delegate
I second that motion.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Free Pacific States
Jul 18 2005, 04:36 PM
For the moment, I suggest we drop this. Whilst FPS recognizes and officially condemns the invasion, with the current Pax threat, and the disagreement within this alliance..I do not believe it will be a good idea to go to war. I'd suggest we all agree to publicly condemn the attack, and to offer humanitarian aid, as a compromise, however, military support is a bad idea."

We can't throw out what this alliance stands for. It would be hypocritical. We need to give both humanitarian and military aid, with what I proposed earlier. I say we bring that idea to a vote.

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
anyone??? FPS? Gnidrah?
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Krechzianko
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Dictator of the Proletariat
Quote:
 
We can't throw out what this alliance stands for. It would be hypocritical. We need to give both humanitarian and military aid, with what I proposed earlier. I say we bring that idea to a vote.


The alliance stands for mutual defense, not military intervention.

I'll agree to everything there, FPS, except for condemnation of the attack. I'm now in an alliance with Vlad, as well, so I'm not gonna openly oppose his invasion. However, I'll gladly send aid and, if you guys really want, activate EPTO troops for peacekeeping (and only peacekeeping; no attacks on Vladistock troops).

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
What the hell?

This invasion was without provocation, without any just cause. You are promoting the very same "imperialism" that your nation is against. This is what they're doing. Heann did shit to them. Not only do we have to provide peacekeeping, we have to restore the stability in this region.

I agree with FPS on this point here, and I request that my earlier proposal be put to a vote.
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