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[OOCRP]Looplite-Govindian Situation; Combination of all threads, renamed
Topic Started: Aug 8 2005, 08:14:49 AM (1,070 Views)
Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Fish Island
Aug 10 2005, 06:54 AM
Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 01:59 AM
what?  i dont know what you looked it up, but it was not as I planned it.  It was explosive enough to kill him, punch through the armour, and basically rip him apart to shreds.  it was powerful enough to throw the guys back though if they were 5 feet from him. anything less and they would have been seriously injured.  But, it is not an act of war - he was killed by a govindian.  and the person responsible was shot by a govindian law enforcement official.

so justice is nonetheless served.  My request to have the post edited stands.

Wait a minute... I shall use the amazing powers of logic to put in my two cents:

The Loop agents were dressed like Agent Smith right? Therefore they were in business suits.

By the fact that you said the explosion was "explosive enough to kill him, punch through the armour, and basically rip him apart to shreds." suggests he was wearing body armour of some sort... Furthermore it "rip[ed] him apart to shreds"... Now this suggests that the explosion was quite powerful... and even if it was not there would be a lot of flying shrapnel from the exploding light sabre which would have at the very least seriously injured, if not killed loop's Agents. Shrapnal is a much bigger killer from bombs and explosives than the explosions themselves... I'm surprised no one has mentioned it in this debate... being close and unprotected, Loop's guys are most likely dead from shrapnel wounds.

Furthermore it is up to the controller of characters to say whether or not they were killed or injured.. If the agents were killed there were no witnesses and the fact that an intruder alarm was pulled could lead investigators and first responders to come to the conclusion that this was a deliberate attack...

Therefore I think that Loop is right here... Although most nations would probably investigate this matter more before retaliating... Loop has a record of jumping the gun... such as the attack on an Iranian city for a suicide bombing in 1IL.

Also Loop as for the How Stuff Works link, as this source is not coming from Lucas or an Official Star Wars source this at the very most is just Fanon, and at the very least random conjecture and inadmissible as a source...

the explosive was packed on one side of the sabre that he was holding to drive most of that stuff into the upper half of Nikolais body to a point it pierced the armour and blew his upper half apart. If anything, the agents would have suffered minor injuries and would have been thrown back, with flesh and blood splattered on their business suits.

This is why I asked loop's post to be edited.

Now, I could re-edit my post to say that he swallowed something given by rogue pgm in food that, when detonated, could have exploded internally and still have the same result - upper half of nikolai exploding.
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Fish Island
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 11:28 AM

the explosive was packed on one side of the sabre that he was holding to drive most of that stuff into the upper half of Nikolais body to a point it pierced the armour and blew his upper half apart.  If anything, the agents would have suffered minor injuries and would have been thrown back, with flesh and blood splattered on their business suits.

This is why I asked loop's post to be edited. 

Now, I could re-edit my post to say that he swallowed something given by rogue pgm in food that, when detonated, could have exploded internally and still have the same result - upper half of nikolai exploding.

Even if the explosives were packed in such away as to direct most of the shrapnel at the Jedi there would still be a lot of shrapnel flying in the direction of Loop's Agents. As such Loop has jurisdiction on whether this injures or kills the agents... It is still very much in keeping with normal probability that they would be killed, so this is Loops call...

If you go back and edit without an agreement before all parties, you shall be guilty of Godmodding (although that will be FPS' Final Call).

I suggest we play this out and see how it goes, just my opinion, but this could very well become a good RP.

But as wars require mutual consent, I suggest we first sit down and work everything out before people start firing shots here... that includes explosive devices and WMDS too! Otherwise this might turn into a Flameing Godmod Fest™...

:foxy:
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
the amount of remaining shrapnel coming from something 6 inches long if Nikolai took the brunt of it would be minimal enough to cause only minor injury to the agents.

I'm not going to edit mine unless I'm asked, but I'm serious about loop editing his posts to reflect my requests.......
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Krechzianko
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Govindia:

They're dead. You're at war. Your country will most likely be vaporized.

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"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Aug 10 2005, 10:20 AM
Govindia:

They're dead. You're at war. Your country will most likely be vaporized.

no i'm not. Loopite is illegally being the agressor here.

I'm not going to respond or pay attention to any posts in the Interview or Shiro Akademi RPs until my requests are obliged.

So, no, no state of war.
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Infinite Loop
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actually the how stuff works Star wars stuff was Lucas approved it was put there as part of a promotion for the new film.

and are you tellingme that a device like a lightsaber actually has the room inside it for explosives?
when a lightsaber blows up it is because the jedi sets is mechanism to overload
and go boom
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Vladistock Island Delegate
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well, in your description he was holding the lightsaber out to his side like he was drawing it, he shook it, and it blew up. If it was powerful enough to rip apart the wielding, chances are the blast radius itself was 10ft around, and in a small room ther wouldnt be much chance to get away from that.

Fish is right too... its kinda loop's call on how injured they were.
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Krechzianko
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Quote:
 

So, no, no state of war.


Gov, you don't get to decide that.

For instance, I could say right now, "Krechzianko declares war on Govindia." I could easily think of an excuse. If you refuse to accept it and I have a semi-legitimate reason, your country just gets pounded into the dirt without your approval.

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"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
Krechzianko
Aug 10 2005, 10:42 AM
Quote:
 

So, no, no state of war.


Gov, you don't get to decide that.

For instance, I could say right now, "Krechzianko declares war on Govindia." I could easily think of an excuse. If you refuse to accept it and I have a semi-legitimate reason, your country just gets pounded into the dirt without your approval.

what if i refuse to recognise that IC stuff and go on?
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Krechzianko
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As long as it is acceptable RP, you have little say in whether it takes place. I remember a thread back on the main NS forums (can't find it) about proper RPing. It said that:

-If one side is being unacceptable and godmodding, you may ignore him and act as though the RP never happened.

-If the other guy is being realistic and not godmodding, you should allow thr RP to take place, as should the rest of the community.

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"Not only does [Krech] have the tongue of a diplomat but a groove the ladies swoon over."
-Soul Cancer

"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Free Pacific States
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Okay. I don't know jackshit about the science. But obviously, few others do, so I'm not going to go there.

To start out, Loop need not edit his post. Like Fish said, it is his job to RP the damage to his chars/people. Not yours, Govindia. Thats the way its always been, always will be. As such, though you might not have meant the explosion to hurt his guards, he can say that it did. Such things happen. And, according to Loop's RP, did happen.

Furthermore, war does not take the consent of both parties, as per the precedent set by the Krechziankan invasion of Vladistock, an active nation who didn't want the invasion to occur, but was forced to allow it to occur anyways. So, like I said, war does not take the consent of both parties.

Finally, Govindia, Loop's declaration is in no way a godmod. His government believes as they do. Their allowed to believe that. They may be utterly wrong, mislead, etc. But, then, so was Bush when he invaded Iraq. And Iraq's still being occupied, isn't it? Point is, Loop gets to decide what he believes, and Loop gets to RP his national actions. You don't get to make that decision. Something that lead to this problem in the first place (you telling him that his government accepted the guards, you telling him that his government was willing to work with you, you telling him that the NKVD let him in). This is an IC problem, not an OOC one, and not one that should be, or will be pursued OOCly.

That said, if you wish, you may, of course, ignore Loop. But be careful what you wish for; because when one ignore cannon (as we used to call it on NS) is fired, others usually follow. Especially when it is fired over something recognized as legitimate.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
i've said my response on this in the shiro ooc thread
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Which I specifically asked you not do. *Sigh*

Anyways, allow me to respond.

Quote:
 
and i am saying i am not going going to recongise any RP actions by Loop, Imatron, or Pax in this or the Interview RP threads unless the threads are properly edited as I requested earlier, including about the dorm rooms and the references about multiple jedi.


The dorm room doesn't matter, Govindia. It was a joke. Furthermore, the jedi can be seen as a mistake. Everyone recognizes that, and no one cares about it.

Quote:
 
Realistically, it didn't make sense for loop to declare war.

"Theres one difference between fiction and reality: fiction has to make sense." -Tom Clancy

Quote:
 
I mean, there's security cameras there, right? If it was an intentional jedi assault instead of him defending himself, why would he wonder why his lightsabre blade went out instead of letting it explode?

Tell me, Govindia. Before it exploded, what was he planning to do with that lightsaber? Regardless of the explosion, he pulled a weapon designed to kill on Loop's NKVD agents. It doesn't take much to figure out what he was planning to do next. At least, in the mind of the NKVD, and as such, the government.

Quote:
 
Because the rogue guard detonated it to kill the jedi, and didnt care much else what happened. Then the other guard shot him before he died, and there are witnesses.

Jill is the only one who witnessed anything, and she doesn't understand jackshit about what was going on. She didn't even know it was a detonator.

Quote:
 
But my original request stands as valid.

For all we know, Tirith's room could've had a large poster board with his name on it, he just didn't have the key. Or it could have been another Tirith. Its just not important enough to RP to worry about.

As for the two jedi thing...Loop already noted that it should be seen as miscommunication in a panicked state, and nothing more. But, neither of these factors really matter, for neither of them relate to the IL-Govindian war directly enough to have made a difference between the two.
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packilvania
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this has gone on long enough. Govindia, you are obviously being a baby about this, and cannot seperate yourself from your nation. It is getting to the point of retardation. I don't mean this as flame bait, but SOMEONE has to say this. I suggest you either get your act together or go find somewhere they accept your brand of RP. You blatantly ignoring IC ations because you don't like them is unacceptable.


This is not a joke* edit
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packilvania
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Quote:
 

Jill is the only one who witnessed anything, and she doesn't understand jackshit about what was going on. She didn't even know it was a detonator.


Noi would have half seen it as she stalks Jill.
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"The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate."

Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned.
DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry.
Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
if it was a joke or miscommunication, the post should have been edited to reflect such acknowledgement. They still do not know where he lived at all. The Jedi brought out the lightsabre in self defence in the event they were going to fire on him. He did not intend to strike them with it unless necessary.

Check your PM.
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Quote:
 
if it was a joke or miscommunication, the post should have been edited to reflect such acknowledgement.


It was quite obvious.

Quote:
 
They still do not know where he lived at all.


Says who? Strange..do you run Shiro Academy, or does Loop? For all you know, there could have been nude prostitutes carrying signs saying "this is Tirith's room" around the hallway.

Quote:
 
The Jedi brought out the lightsabre in self defence in the event they were going to fire on him. He did not intend to strike them with it unless necessary.


I see. Tell me, if you were a cop, and a guy pulled a gun and pointed it at someone, would you shoot him, or wait to see if he intended to use the weapon?

Quote:
 
Check your PM.


I always do.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
i don't care if it was obvious, I wanted to see it reflected in the edit.

It wasn't known. It needed to be stated there explicitly for things like that.

If I was a cop and that happened he would have at least been warned. They did not warn him at all, and not the IED killed him, being a jedi, he might have surrendered peacefully.
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Free Pacific States
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 08:10 PM
i don't care if it was obvious, I wanted to see it reflected in the edit.

It wasn't known. It needed to be stated there explicitly for things like that.

If I was a cop and that happened he would have at least been warned. They did not warn him at all, and not the IED killed him, being a jedi, he might have surrendered peacefully.

The first two statements are pure arrogance, I won't respond to them.

As to the third statement: thats right. He may of. Loop gets to decide what his own people would think, however. And, at the moment, they think the jedi was planning to kill the guards, and then set off an explosive. Thats their right, stupid though they may be.

As to my anology: cops get killed for giving warnings to people with guns.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
no it's not arrogance, it's me firmly believing that things need to be documented here, and that's how it can be/should be done.
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Free Pacific States
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 08:28 PM
no it's not arrogance, it's me firmly believing that things need to be documented here, and that's how it can be/should be done.

Well, Govindia, to be frank, I would agree with you. If we were talking about a nuclear attack, or an invasion, or something like that.

We're talking about a bunch of racoons being let loose in a room at a school. I'll state this one last time. It does not matter.

Furthermore, I would remind you to remember that as RP Moderator, I am the one who decides what happens, save appeal. And I don't much like having people blatantly tell me that I'm wrong, stupid, and then threatening me with killing an RP in an attempt to force me to change my mind.

In the opinion of this office, neither of those posts are important enough to be edited. And furthermore, Loop's declaration of war is neither illegal (OOCly), or a Godmod. As such, if you plan to ignore Loop at this point, I remind you that it will be viewed, officially, as a result of your own personal attachment to your nation, and not as the result of any other circumstances.
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Krechzianko
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Quote:
 
no it's not arrogance, it's me firmly believing that things need to be documented here, and that's how it can be/should be done.


Well, you're wrong. Gov, you may not believe it, but things here do not revolve around your needs and desires. People want to enjoy themselves, not act subservient to you and to follow your every whim. You need to accept that nobody is editing their posts, and nobody is going to change their RP so your nation can remain unscathed. Govindia is probably going to get blown up at some point. That's how things work in RP.

This comment is, in itself, arrogance. You think that your way of doing things is the right way, no matter what. Guess what: you're not the RP Mod, FPS is. You do what he says when it comes to RP. So stop acting like everyone wants to do what you want and accept FPS' control over roleplay.

As I said in the other forum, pretty much every RP you do involving Krechzianko will be ignored until you mend your ways and start listening to more experieced players' recommendations. You ignored a proper RP, so I'll ignore yours. So don't bother to give my ambassador a gift, or whatever it is that you're doing.

Thank you. Mods, I know this sounds like a flame, but as Pack said, he needs to learn how to do things the right way.

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"Krechziankans are known to simply disregard information to blow the shit outa someone they don't like." -FPS

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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
.............

don't come talking about experience with me - i've been doing RP since 2002.
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Free Pacific States
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 08:38 PM
.............

don't come talking about experience with me - i've been doing RP since 2002.

I've been doing RP since 1996. So dont tell me about experience.
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Haor Chall
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AquinasNet
And... er... I've been rp'ing since 2003. So I rule the lot of you.

In fact, thinking about it, I've been breathing since 1987. so I'm obviously far better than all of you.

:chittr:

Oh and I should just add, if any of you claim to have been breathing for longer than me, that is so obviously a Godmod.
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Republic of Govindia
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The Fluffy Horde
8 oct. 1983, so i win :P
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 11 2005, 01:57 AM
8 oct. 1983, so i win :P

Quote:
 
Member Group: RP Moderator


I believe I win, actually.
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Free Pacific States
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Gov, we've now discussed the issue at hand, and come to a mutual conclusion. I request, and demand, that you withdraw the ignore.
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Infinite Loop
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Republic of Govindia
Aug 10 2005, 03:38 PM
.............

don't come talking about experience with me - i've been doing RP since 2002.

That means Little to me,
I have been in the game (RP) since 1986 when I started In AD&D
I moved through Paranoia, SHadowrun, Toon, Marvel supers, DC, Robotech
Judge Dreed, Call of Cthulhu you name it I have played it and have a copy
And I farking WROTE a RPG, unfortunantly the Glut of shitty ones in the mid 90's
pretty much killed its chance at being published.

And Gov, I happen to know a bit about this and No, you are not going to make me like Norion
Your Mission is a Failure.
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Infinite Loop
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Free Pacific States
Aug 10 2005, 10:31 PM
Republic of Govindia
Aug 11 2005, 01:57 AM
8 oct. 1983, so i win :P

Quote:
 
Member Group: RP Moderator


I believe I win, actually.

Actually,
Loop
1974
ADMIN / Board Owner.
I win but apoint FPS as the one who does the winning and remain out of the RP Refereeing.

and Holy Crap, I started AD&D when Gov was 3 years OLD.
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