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Inactive Nations; Recommendations for Pruning
Topic Started: Sep 25 2007, 06:47:39 PM (1,117 Views)
coocoostan
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Post-Communist Kleptocrat
*pokes head in to borrow a cup of sugar, and by borrow I mean, demand, for free*

"Hey neighbour, what you got there. A map of the region you say? Well it sure looks mighty......why aren't I on there?"

Yes, I am back. Although my own computer's in a warehouse somehwhere, with most of my s*it. So only sort of.
"You wouldn't want to miss Coocoostan."
"One goal, One Passion, Coocoostan."

Sloganizer.net
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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
To the question of "who has the authority", I would defer to Loop, Gnid, or FPS. Loop, in addition to being the former Delegate, is the root admin of this forum, Gnid is the current Delegate and technically the head of the executive, and FPS is RP administrator.

Since Gnid has had his say, I'll see about blanking the map for the +10 group.

Quote:
 
My friend, you yourself are not here anymore, de facto.


Excuse me? I think Bai Lung would disagree with you. The fact that I don't find all the current ongoing RPs to my liking or conducive to my participation does not mean I'm absent. I still check in here almost every day.

I do not plan in taking part in +10. I have an entire open-ended domestic storyline planned on a real-time timescale into 2009; at that point I might change my mind. Is that going to mean Kelssek doesn't exist in 2018? No it doesn't.
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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Here is a quick re-do.

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Terasu
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Level 30 Revenant.
Aww, I'm not on it... Neither is Drakkengard.
Reziel
 
but i'm an asshole with computer graphics

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The Elafos Coalition
The Iskios Federation
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Lazlowia
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PR of Lazlowia
Yes, my territories are incorrect too.
NSWiki page of Lazlowia
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Reziel
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Eternal Delegate
Kelssek, I wasn't trying to delegitimate either you or the work you've always done and you still do for the region. Such an attempt of mine would be both inaccurate and unfair.

I was just saying that, in the last times, you have been de facto absent from RP. And considering the map importance is 90% linked to RP itself, I was just saying that perhaps you should have tried to listen to the active RPers' request instead of simply stepping in and saying "forget about it, you cannot have a new map".

And that's simply because I think that active RPers should have a say in RP-related matters: the same reason for which Lazlow's and Terasu's (to make two names) opinions should count far more than mine own, considering I've been absent for a rather long while.




That said, I've had a short AIM-chat with Kandarin yesterday night and I've come out with a thought (yup... my two active neurons have met... take notice, because it won't happen again too soon). What about inserting some kind of plot-limit, to avoid massive occupations of map-space by a single nation? Something like 4/5, no more. After all, RP should bestorytelling, not map-plot-flagging, shouldn't it?

Thoughts, guys?
Armis Exposcere Pacem
They demanded peace by force of arms


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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Let me start by nothing that though I do appreciate the praise, Kelssek, I'm in no position to overrule ya. I'm no longer RP Administrator.

With that in mind, I'd like to make a few suggestions, regarding the map.

Historical Protection shouldn't be completely repealed, however, it needs to be scaled back a great deal. It should be offered only to those nations that made a serious, substantive contribution to the region, and should only protect one plot per nation.

A Plot Limit should be put into place. Each nation ought to be allowed only a maximum of four or five plots as sovereign territory. Those nations already owning more than that shouldn't be forced to size down. An unlimited number of plots could still be claimed as territories.

If a person has two nations, the second nation ought have a maximum of one to two plots claimable as sovereign territory.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Infinite Loop
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Take Off, Eh?
Free Pacific States
Apr 3 2008, 12:43 PM
Let me start by nothing that though I do appreciate the praise, Kelssek, I'm in no position to overrule ya. I'm no longer RP Administrator.

With that in mind, I'd like to make a few suggestions, regarding the map.

Historical Protection shouldn't be completely repealed, however, it needs to be scaled back a great deal. It should be offered only to those nations that made a serious, substantive contribution to the region, and should only protect one plot per nation.

A Plot Limit should be put into place. Each nation ought to be allowed only a maximum of four or five plots as sovereign territory. Those nations already owning more than that shouldn't be forced to size down. An unlimited number of plots could still be claimed as territories.

If a person has two nations, the second nation ought have a maximum of one to two plots claimable as sovereign territory.

Wery good.
as for the plot limit there used to be one based on population in one of the map topics.
[found it]

You may Claim Plots based on your Population

QUOTE

1-500 Million=1 Plot

500 Million to 1 Billion= Two Plots

1 Billion to 1.5 Billion = Three Plots

1.5 Billion to 2 Billion= Four Plots

2 Billion to 3 Billion= Five Plots

3 Billion+ we will see about it as they get there.*

basically this was the limit, 5 plots total.
I suggest for secondary nations the simit beinc 1 plot if they hawe more it comes from your potential pool of 5.

kinda like how Megalocyathus has just that little nubbin of land that was leftover from my laying the map of kentucky under the asias map.

Protected territories may still be ok as well so long as they follow the same rules
have to be touching you, may be claimed at any point by a nation with open claims ewt.
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Endorsements recieved ( 69 ) : Cupertino, 1 Infinite Loop, 2 Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop, Bob Mckenzie, Shinagami, Shortbus, Magic Emperor Ghaelon, Ghaelon, SLAK, Prarie squid, Alys Whitill, The Cabin Grrrrl, The Cabin Girl, hax0rstan, Black Wolf Furries, Mr OWL, Vladimir Harkonnen, Uncle Duke, McTropolis, Avignon, Caesar Calligula, Max Zorin, Deus Ex Fiat, Walter Koenig, The True Reich, Atlanta Constitution, Fark Propaganda Corps, The Knights of Colombus, Fertile Sputniks, Jude Streicher,Otto Skorzeny, Nicholas der Kirchwass, Megalocyathus, Lil Megalocyathus, Uncle Toms Nation, Simon Legree, Yatta_, Lowtax, Patriotute, Doctor Zaius, General Ursus, Corneluis the ape, Nova the wild human, Bright eyes taylor, Dr Zira, Alex Chiu, Honkey the Goose, StandartenFuerher, Neko Mimi, The NS Invaders, Free n Accepted Masons.Miss Tessmacher, Hurricane Jezebel ,Rbt E Lee ,Dead Yankee ,U S Grant ,General Mead, Baron Karza, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Col Sanders, Aunt Jemimas witnesses, of the people Q, Le French Stereotypes, Qfdsdiozbnf, Alan Scott, Baltar the Traitor, Mok Mok the Jawa, space kraken,
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Reziel
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Eternal Delegate
A curiosity... why some plots (8, 11, 56, 84, 89, 93, 94) are far bigger than the average ones?

I mean... FPS says it's because they're non-coastal, but it doesn't work. indeed, 93 and 94 seems to be coastal... and then, there's PLENTY of stamp-sized "internal" plots...

It's just a curiosity!



About the limit, I'm in complete favour. i'd honestly be even stricter, with a maximum of 4 to be allowed... probably with +1 bonus plot whose "annexion" should be justified via a relevant RP thread.
Armis Exposcere Pacem
They demanded peace by force of arms


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Terasu
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Level 30 Revenant.
Basing the plot amount on NS population, I oppose that idea. The actual NS nation doesn't always represent the nation we are using in the RPs.

Historical Protection, I'm sure we're just going round in circles here.

I think 5 plots is too many to "own" completely. 3 maximum I think. Claiming plots as "territory" is reasonable but this should be done so through RP and can be challenged by other members in the RP itself.
Reziel
 
but i'm an asshole with computer graphics

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The Elafos Coalition
The Iskios Federation
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drakkengard
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WA Liaison
Guess i won´t agree with you this time, Terasu. I´ve being trying to unite my country in a single piece of land for months, and i´ll need a 4th plot for that. Although for now, i just want to appear on the new map...
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Infinite Loop
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Take Off, Eh?
Originally the map was smaller what you see now is the 2nd or 3rd revision.
as for plot size it is entirely logic less you see when I made the map I took a nice map of asia and removed the color inside the border then took a political map of Kentucky turned it 45º and laid it under the map of asia and wiggled it aorund a bit till I liked how it looked. numbered it asd posted itthat and I made Japan fatter than it was IRL.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Endorsements recieved ( 69 ) : Cupertino, 1 Infinite Loop, 2 Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop, Bob Mckenzie, Shinagami, Shortbus, Magic Emperor Ghaelon, Ghaelon, SLAK, Prarie squid, Alys Whitill, The Cabin Grrrrl, The Cabin Girl, hax0rstan, Black Wolf Furries, Mr OWL, Vladimir Harkonnen, Uncle Duke, McTropolis, Avignon, Caesar Calligula, Max Zorin, Deus Ex Fiat, Walter Koenig, The True Reich, Atlanta Constitution, Fark Propaganda Corps, The Knights of Colombus, Fertile Sputniks, Jude Streicher,Otto Skorzeny, Nicholas der Kirchwass, Megalocyathus, Lil Megalocyathus, Uncle Toms Nation, Simon Legree, Yatta_, Lowtax, Patriotute, Doctor Zaius, General Ursus, Corneluis the ape, Nova the wild human, Bright eyes taylor, Dr Zira, Alex Chiu, Honkey the Goose, StandartenFuerher, Neko Mimi, The NS Invaders, Free n Accepted Masons.Miss Tessmacher, Hurricane Jezebel ,Rbt E Lee ,Dead Yankee ,U S Grant ,General Mead, Baron Karza, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Col Sanders, Aunt Jemimas witnesses, of the people Q, Le French Stereotypes, Qfdsdiozbnf, Alan Scott, Baltar the Traitor, Mok Mok the Jawa, space kraken,
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Infinite Loop
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Take Off, Eh?
Until a week or two ago the kentucky thing was a state secret too.
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Endorsements recieved ( 69 ) : Cupertino, 1 Infinite Loop, 2 Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop, Bob Mckenzie, Shinagami, Shortbus, Magic Emperor Ghaelon, Ghaelon, SLAK, Prarie squid, Alys Whitill, The Cabin Grrrrl, The Cabin Girl, hax0rstan, Black Wolf Furries, Mr OWL, Vladimir Harkonnen, Uncle Duke, McTropolis, Avignon, Caesar Calligula, Max Zorin, Deus Ex Fiat, Walter Koenig, The True Reich, Atlanta Constitution, Fark Propaganda Corps, The Knights of Colombus, Fertile Sputniks, Jude Streicher,Otto Skorzeny, Nicholas der Kirchwass, Megalocyathus, Lil Megalocyathus, Uncle Toms Nation, Simon Legree, Yatta_, Lowtax, Patriotute, Doctor Zaius, General Ursus, Corneluis the ape, Nova the wild human, Bright eyes taylor, Dr Zira, Alex Chiu, Honkey the Goose, StandartenFuerher, Neko Mimi, The NS Invaders, Free n Accepted Masons.Miss Tessmacher, Hurricane Jezebel ,Rbt E Lee ,Dead Yankee ,U S Grant ,General Mead, Baron Karza, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Col Sanders, Aunt Jemimas witnesses, of the people Q, Le French Stereotypes, Qfdsdiozbnf, Alan Scott, Baltar the Traitor, Mok Mok the Jawa, space kraken,
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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Well, here we go. No one's happy, as usual.

EDIT: I have updated the v2 map.
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Kandarin
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Ferret princess
Your preliminary map is good, Kel. Clearly, some nations still need to be added, but it's a good start. If I may make any suggestions and nitpick a little, I'd like to point out that A) There were some other map plots on the same island as Xiopothos and B) Intracircumcordei never really did much of anything and can safely be removed as well, unless you know something about ICCD that I don't.

And yes, FPS left the RP Administrator job to me a while back. That's the only reason I'm a forum admin at all.

Warr
 
you might as well make it a rule that people can't have expansionist tendencies until they've been on nationstates for four or five months.


Warr
 
You made Japan fatter, which made it much larger than many of the other plots.


(Yes, there's a connection between those quotes, at least to me)

The way I see it, the purpose of plot limits isn't to limit expansionism to older players. It's to limit expansionism for everyone.

Now, I know that some people (You, Drakk, Pack) have RP premises that are based on relentless and aggressive expansionism. That's fine. However, there's a limit to the number of NPC nation conquests one nation can do before it gets repetitive. More importantly, there's a limit to the amount of space a nation can grab up before it creates the same problem as a slew of dead nations - that is, a shortage of available space.

It's okay to show your nation as constantly on the warpath, but on an OOC level, controlling as much of the map as you can shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of EPRP. There should be a point where an expansionist stops claiming NPCs again and again and starts tussling with player-controlled nations. It makes for a better story and invites others in.
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"

Quote:
 
ClipSnap says:
Kandarin should just implode from the sheer ridiculousness of it all.
ClipSnap says:
I mean, no nation could ever sustain that many contradicting belief systems and still exist.
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Infinite Loop
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Take Off, Eh?
Kelssek
Apr 3 2008, 10:44 PM
Well, here we go. No one's happy, as usual.

EDIT: I have updated the v2 map.

Kel makes good maps*

(they all contain 20% bald eagle tears)
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Endorsements recieved ( 69 ) : Cupertino, 1 Infinite Loop, 2 Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop, Bob Mckenzie, Shinagami, Shortbus, Magic Emperor Ghaelon, Ghaelon, SLAK, Prarie squid, Alys Whitill, The Cabin Grrrrl, The Cabin Girl, hax0rstan, Black Wolf Furries, Mr OWL, Vladimir Harkonnen, Uncle Duke, McTropolis, Avignon, Caesar Calligula, Max Zorin, Deus Ex Fiat, Walter Koenig, The True Reich, Atlanta Constitution, Fark Propaganda Corps, The Knights of Colombus, Fertile Sputniks, Jude Streicher,Otto Skorzeny, Nicholas der Kirchwass, Megalocyathus, Lil Megalocyathus, Uncle Toms Nation, Simon Legree, Yatta_, Lowtax, Patriotute, Doctor Zaius, General Ursus, Corneluis the ape, Nova the wild human, Bright eyes taylor, Dr Zira, Alex Chiu, Honkey the Goose, StandartenFuerher, Neko Mimi, The NS Invaders, Free n Accepted Masons.Miss Tessmacher, Hurricane Jezebel ,Rbt E Lee ,Dead Yankee ,U S Grant ,General Mead, Baron Karza, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Col Sanders, Aunt Jemimas witnesses, of the people Q, Le French Stereotypes, Qfdsdiozbnf, Alan Scott, Baltar the Traitor, Mok Mok the Jawa, space kraken,
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Infinite Loop
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Take Off, Eh?
Kelssek
Apr 3 2008, 10:44 PM
Well, here we go. No one's happy, as usual.

EDIT: I have updated the v2 map.

btw what is the URL for the eagle tears comic?
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Endorsements recieved ( 69 ) : Cupertino, 1 Infinite Loop, 2 Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop, Bob Mckenzie, Shinagami, Shortbus, Magic Emperor Ghaelon, Ghaelon, SLAK, Prarie squid, Alys Whitill, The Cabin Grrrrl, The Cabin Girl, hax0rstan, Black Wolf Furries, Mr OWL, Vladimir Harkonnen, Uncle Duke, McTropolis, Avignon, Caesar Calligula, Max Zorin, Deus Ex Fiat, Walter Koenig, The True Reich, Atlanta Constitution, Fark Propaganda Corps, The Knights of Colombus, Fertile Sputniks, Jude Streicher,Otto Skorzeny, Nicholas der Kirchwass, Megalocyathus, Lil Megalocyathus, Uncle Toms Nation, Simon Legree, Yatta_, Lowtax, Patriotute, Doctor Zaius, General Ursus, Corneluis the ape, Nova the wild human, Bright eyes taylor, Dr Zira, Alex Chiu, Honkey the Goose, StandartenFuerher, Neko Mimi, The NS Invaders, Free n Accepted Masons.Miss Tessmacher, Hurricane Jezebel ,Rbt E Lee ,Dead Yankee ,U S Grant ,General Mead, Baron Karza, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Col Sanders, Aunt Jemimas witnesses, of the people Q, Le French Stereotypes, Qfdsdiozbnf, Alan Scott, Baltar the Traitor, Mok Mok the Jawa, space kraken,
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Reziel
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Eternal Delegate
Infinite Loop
Apr 4 2008, 03:33 AM
Originally the map was smaller what you see now is the 2nd or 3rd revision.
as for plot size it is entirely logic less you see when I made the map I took a nice map of asia and removed the color inside the border then took a political map of Kentucky turned it 45º and laid it under the map of asia and wiggled it aorund a bit till I liked how it looked. numbered it asd posted itthat and I made Japan fatter than it was IRL.

(*falls down the chair, hypnotized by the story*)

:P

kel, don't be so pessimistic! *I* am happy, for example. I was just wondering and mine wasn't a complaint at all. I'm perfectly in-line with Kandarin: plot-flagging is not my main purpose at all!
Armis Exposcere Pacem
They demanded peace by force of arms


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Haor Chall
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AquinasNet

In the future, if/when the map starts to fill up, why not expand it a little bit...? Add some more landmass to the east of the map maybe and extend it southwards as well perhaps?


Oh and on the new map please can AquinasNet be named Kuat and take territories 83, 79 and (...) half of 99 and also it should include the eastern half of the currently (if it is incorrect) labelled Algiasia (Laslowia), including the city of Roi as the Pax have left it... Roi absorbed entirely peacefully of course. :)
Senator for International Affairs, The Pacific

"When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."

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Kelssek
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
Quote:
 
btw what is the URL for the eagle tears comic?


Try the magical link in my sig. Or for the image itself it's http://www.overcompensating.com/comics/20070416.png

I've always used the population-plot thing as a guideline for reasonableness. The v2 map is in a similar spirit, paring down some of the plot claims. If you really want a plot I've left off please make a request in the appropriate thread, which I am about to start, not here.

Gnidrah's shape has also changed because of the removal of Conservative Cajuns, which apparently had been jutting into Gnidrah all this while.
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