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| Citizen Hotline | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 24 2009, 10:06:02 PM (5,023 Views) | |
| North Harmoneia | Jul 26 2010, 09:46:15 AM Post #91 |
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Kilroy was here
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teh blackhole prophesy! noes. |
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| Todd McCloud | Aug 10 2010, 11:29:58 AM Post #92 |
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Planet Telox
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This has kind of fallen by the wayside. In talking with an arbiter, I really don't know if we're following this anymore. I think it makes sense that this has sort of been ignored for a time, as our provost was absent for a while, but I'd like to know the groundwork this new Magisterium is laying down: - May citizens post topics in your sub-forum? - May citizens respond to posts in your sub-forum? And if so, may they do so without the permission of the provost? (sans this citizen thread, of course) - This has, in the past, been handed by the provost. If we're going to continue this, new Magisters, who should citizens go to in case the provost goes AWOL? ((citizens in this sense means essentially those who are citizens but non-Magisters, regardless of governmental positions)) I have a feeling that over time, this body has been subject to some mistreatment. I believe at times in the past I have instigated this. Although I didn't mean to, I must apologize for that. Perhaps if you all could establish some sort of ground rules, it would help us understand where you're going to stand with this stuff. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Free Pacific States | Aug 10 2010, 04:04:50 PM Post #93 |
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Number One Drone
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I've got to agree with Todd. As I said during my campaign, I feel that the Magisterium has ceased to be an independent body, and that it really just rubber-stamps decisions these days. To counteract that, I think we do need to get this thread going again, and allow the Magisterium to independently determine what to debate/decide. To ensure that, I think we need to hold our Provost to a higher standard, requiring activity, and removing the Provost if s/he does not meet that requirement. I also think putting together some rules of order might not be a bad idea. I'm not saying we need to start acting like Congress or Parliament -- but having a general way to run things would be good. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Nalt | Aug 10 2010, 05:01:02 PM Post #94 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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IMO it isn't unreasonable for citizens to be allowed to post for a couple days following the beginning of work on a new idea, just so they can share anything they are concerned about. Alternatively this could be done via PM though, or a post in this thread (which my concern would be that not all the magisters would read) so if we find it more orderly to maintain the current rules forbidding posting there are other ways to communicate, so it wouldn't be a huge catastrophe or anything. Just a personal preference I guess. I do NOT think anyone other than a magister should be able to start discussions in the Magisterium. I agree with FPS, if a Provost goes inactive I'll cast a vote to remove him. I don't mean anything personal against Dyr but if there was someone active who was willing to do the job I'd rather them do it. Bringing ideas to the magisterium is one thing, by posting in this thread or PM a magister or two behind the scenes to try to prompt action on an issue. I asked for breaking off ties with Unknown that way so don't construe this as me saying non-Magisters should totally butt out. I do have a slight ... Uneasiness ... With non-magisters going much farther than suggestions to act. (Again I am not pointing fingers to make accusations but more to demonstrate) the Viceroy is currently drafting a law to propose to the magisterium regarding his powers/duties/responsibilities when it comes to elections. It is a great idea and I like the actual text of the proposal so far, but, I don't like the the Viceroy himself (herself?) is writing it. I guess I'm just uneasy about three things: 1) It is a good system to have the people who write the law be different people than the people that issue rulings based on them (judicial) or the people whom use power based on them (executive, with the addition of Viceroy in the case of elections). To have a law drafted up by the conclave seems to damage the principle of division of powers to me. It makes it too easy for a delegate to attempt to imply lightly that he/she has a power he/she didn't already have in the law she proposes and using the law once passed as a means to expand the power of the delegacy or that an Arbiter write a law that includes unspecific wording or a loophole so that he/she can rule a certain way in the future. (And to be clear because I really don't want to make people mad, I am not saying I think Barb is trying a power grab here, I'm saying that by using this precedent future Viceroys/Delegates/Arbiters could use the same method as a power grab, and that's why we should avoid it, for the precedent.) 2) It kind of goes with the above division of powers concern but I think there is a reason the Concordat says: "An Arbiter shall not serve concurrently as a Magister". 3) I feel like it opens the door for the people in higher political positions than the Magisters to put political pressure on the newer magisters to vote for the (again an example) law the delegate proposed to the magisterium because it would be politically foolish for a new member to oppose something someone as powerful/popular/experienced as a delegate backed. It seems like it gives another advantage to the more experienced players and weakens the newer nations voices un-necessarily. Oh, and by the way, this entire statement is meant for situations when the magisterium is active. I can see the reason to draft one up yourself if none of the magisters are active enough to do it themselves. But in this case it is my personal belief it would have been better for Barb to simply come to the newly elected magisterium (once they are elected) in this thread and make the statement that she would like a law formalizing the election procedure. We could have handled it from there, and she could have told us in the same manner if we accidentally did something that is contrary to tradition (unless it was intentional I suppose). |
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| Barb | Aug 11 2010, 04:25:12 PM Post #95 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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Some excellent thoughts here. I love the Citizen Hotline concept. I don't think it's the most efficient way to get citizen comments on formal proposals. The way we worked it out in Conclave was to say that Viceroy was responsible for putting things on our calendar, so anyone who wants the Arbiters to gather needs to present their issue to Viceroy to have it scheduled, not just open up a thread in Conclave willy nilly. You could create a proposed legislation thread or do it like we do: make proposals go through Provost. We did the calendar thing so Arbiters didn't have to cruise Conclave to see if there's any action and I didn't have to mass-PM them when there was: they can all just subscribe to our calendar. Our judicial threads say 'ARBITERS & INTERESTED PARTIES ONLY" and the list of interested parties (nations allowed to participate) is posted - and modified as needed - in the thread opening post by Viceroy. We have a limit to time for presenting matters and for deliberation so stuff doesn't languish. Since all citizens are interested parties in legislation, creating some legislation specific thread open for citizen commentary that is eventually closed by Provost would be an analogous solution. Then tell the rest of us to stay the heck out of your publicly posted deliberations and votes. Concordat states "The Magisterium shall meet in open session except when it is agreed by majority vote that a closed session is necessary." It also states Conclave must conduct its business in a publicly viewable venue. That doesn't mean either body has to allow Bluto to post drive by fart jokes in our threads that disrupt the proceedings. As much as I just love drive by fart jokes. Which is a lovely segue for inactivity. The preferred method is a graceful resignation. In Conclave, if they don't appear to have a pulse, we try to contact them quietly to ask if they still want to be Arbiter. If they don't respond, we meet publicly to vote on removing them, which gives them additional time to respond - and is really just an intermediary step before handing their name over to the Magisterium with our blessing for you to vote them out of office. As for Provost inactivity, Conclave created a Viceroy-Designee. If I go AWOL (or know that I will have to be offline temporarily), I have appointed another Arbiter - Todd - to preside. If I stay AWOL and don't resign, then I expect to find myself removed from my position if I return at some future date. That isn't being harsh. It's harsh to allow a player who can't fulfill their duties for any reason to hold the rest of us hostage. My two cents.
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| Chancellor Shaw | Aug 14 2010, 02:52:51 AM Post #96 |
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Bill Stickers is Innocent
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Greetings to all the newly elected Magisters!!! I wish to offer you my most sincere congratulations, it is wonderful that you have all been elected and seem to desire to create an active Magisterium. Remember, no matter how experienced or inexperienced you may be, being active and interested in current events is nearly the single most important thing you can do! I voted aye for all of you because I believe that is what you all intend to do, and thus I wish you well. One word of advice: If you cannot, for whatever reason, be as active as is expected of you (or at least inform others of your times of absence) it will be of great benefit to the Magisterium as a whole if you voluntarily step down. I hope that does not become the case, but regardless, it is a good thing to keep in mind. Let's show NS what politics looks like in the best Feeder ever! :lol: |
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Thank you for your time Chancellor Shaw, of the Free Land of Moafin Moafin Wiki: under construction Moafin Q&A
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| North Harmoneia | Aug 15 2010, 11:07:13 AM Post #97 |
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Kilroy was here
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thanks for the trust Chancellor Shaw. ![]() here here barb. Although I am a bit lost with your first sentence there. You love citizen hotline, AND you don't think it's an efficient way to get citizens to comment on formal proposals? |
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| Dovakhan | Aug 15 2010, 12:18:04 PM Post #98 |
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They Desire a Better Country
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Based on the interest in creating a regional railway for RP purposes (Link), I've decided to ask the Magisterium to consider the following. Could a magister please submit it?
Also, if you decide to consider this, would it be possible for me to get temporary posting privileges? |
| Holy CRAP! This is the Dovahkiin! | |
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| Barb | Aug 15 2010, 05:59:59 PM Post #99 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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Hi NH! Yep. I think a specific proposal of legislation to be enacted deserves a topic-specific thread. Opened to citizens by Provost and closed to citizens by Provost. Then debate and vote. A general thread (hotline) for all things Magisterium is a good thing, but if there's gonna be a law enacted - I suggest Magisterium create a dedicated thread for it. There are only seven laws in addition to Concordat right now. The hotline is full of all sorts of useful (and less useful) stuff and it might be a great place for proposals and noodling about them, but when it comes to formally enacting a law - I suggest Magisterium ought to consider starting a separate thread for each law formally proposed. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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7:42 PM Jul 10