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Query
Topic Started: Jan 15 2010, 01:12:34 AM (887 Views)
Dyr Nasad
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Slave to the Hive Mind
After recent events, I would like to ask the Conclave for a ruling regarding the following from the Concordat, with special attention being paid to how the "popular will" is best measured.

Quote:
 
Section 3) The Delegate of the The East Pacific must represent the popular will of The East Pacific in the World Assembly.


Many thanks.

Dyr Nasad
Provost of the Magisterium
Everything is possible, the impossible just takes longer.
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Kandarin
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Ferret princess
I would first recommend a switch to voting by post instead of poll in the future. Right now, while some guesses can be made, we lack information on the degree to which people joining just to vote is a problem.
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"

Quote:
 
ClipSnap says:
Kandarin should just implode from the sheer ridiculousness of it all.
ClipSnap says:
I mean, no nation could ever sustain that many contradicting belief systems and still exist.
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Allegheny
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Partly Cloudy
I too think that it is a good idea to change the vote from a poll to a written vote. The potential for poll abuse is to great a danger to ignore. I've seen it before. Voter fraud and the like dealt very damaging blows to my old home region which lead to it's death.

We also need to know who can be a citizen or not. Vacationer brought up the point that some who applied for citizenship were not residents of TEP in the game itself. I can not say that Vacationer is right or wrong as i have no wish or the time to find their names in a sea of over 2000 nations. Unless there is some hidden search function i'm missing.

I call for special attention to brought to this also. These two "queries" are tied to each other. If you are not a resident then you can't be a citizen which means you can't vote on issues relevant to regional interest. Which means some of those votes may have been illegal. Am i correct? Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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There was a hole here. It's gone now.
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Kurogasa
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Viceroy
I thought only citizens were allowed to cast a vote in the WA resolutions...I guess my memory isn't as good as it used to be...

If anyone can vote in the polls then I agree with both of you, it should be changed from poll to post, that way people won't be suspicious every time a resolution vote turns around like this one did...

if only citizens are allowed to vote in the polls then we just need to make sure our "citizens" are actually part of TEP...although this would be tricky, as some of our older members aren't residents.

and to Allegheny, there is a not so hidden way to find nations, here
I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon).

"What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus-

"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan-
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Allegheny
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Partly Cloudy
I think the citizenship problem can be rectified by requiring a link to new nations applying included in the application itself. That way we can tell who is and isn't a resident of TEP quickly before giving them citizenship.

Also thank you Kurogasa.
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H. Savaer
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Face Plant!
Link would solve the residency issue, unfortunately, there is little to no real means to verify a registree's intentions regarding why they joined, much less applied. Last night could very well include a number of people that did so simply to vote, but without time to see, it's not quite a guarantee such. would be best to observe I'd think regarding that.

BTW: The seach method is only useful if you know people's puppet names. It MAY be of great aid to keep a logistic board of JUST citizens with their nation links. IE: H. Savaer - The Night Lotus

If you didn't know I owned The Night Lotus and looked for Savaer, you'd be revoking my cit for it being in Prussia Reborn, and the nation 'H Savaer' doesn't exist. I used to have one named that, but I lost the password to it :P
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Eluvatar
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Honorary Citizen
Voting by post, and asking people what their EP nation is if necessary, seems like the best solution to me.
Posted ImageThe Republic of Eastern El Puppet
Posted ImageThe Kingdom of Athkhala

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Allegheny
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Partly Cloudy
Well then we would need to make a requirement in which the user should put the name of their nation followed by a link. obviously it can't stop all nefarious wrong doers but it would certainly help, at least i think it would.
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Todd McCloud
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Planet Telox
I think if we just work the WA forum so only people with citizen masks can vote, we'd be good. It would prevent guest voting and non-citizen voting on those polls, right?
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
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Eluvatar
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Todd McCloud
Jan 15 2010, 10:36 PM
I think if we just work the WA forum so only people with citizen masks can vote, we'd be good. It would prevent guest voting and non-citizen voting on those polls, right?

We'd have to be more careful with the Citizen rolls though, in my opinion.
Posted ImageThe Republic of Eastern El Puppet
Posted ImageThe Kingdom of Athkhala

Posted ImagePosted Image
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Kandarin
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Ferret princess
Point of order here - Dyr Nasad's original request was for constitutional clarification. That is, he asked for the Conclave to clarify what it means to "represent the popular will of The East Pacific in the World Assembly".

While I raised the question in the first place, the subject of voting mechanics isn't one of a constitutional clarification and has come to involve more people than just Arbiters. We now have two distinct topics up for discussion, plus two different sets of people discussing them, and so two threads may be in order. Does anyone second this, or are we all satisfied to proceed as-is?
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"

Quote:
 
ClipSnap says:
Kandarin should just implode from the sheer ridiculousness of it all.
ClipSnap says:
I mean, no nation could ever sustain that many contradicting belief systems and still exist.
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Allegheny
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Partly Cloudy
to me you can't really ask how is popular will to be presented without acknowledging that some of those people probably just came to vote on that one particular thing and that we won't see them again.

As for popular will, it should only be measured by actual residents votes not by people who can see it and check a tic on a poll, I probably should have raised a query when Todd said he would vote on it before the residents actually got to vote. His early voting may influence others to vote the same way when the influence should be the peoples expressed opinion stated within the thread.

I dont even know if what i typed even made sense.
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Dyr Nasad
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Slave to the Hive Mind
Kandarin
Jan 16 2010, 12:27 AM
the subject of voting mechanics isn't one of a constitutional clarification and has come to involve more people than just Arbiters. We now have two distinct topics up for discussion, plus two different sets of people discussing them, and so two threads may be in order. Does anyone second this, or are we all satisfied to proceed as-is?

If you feel that this is outside of the Conclave's jurisdiction, then very well. I initially wanted a judicial ruling from the Conclave before we started a public discussion, but I suppose we can have separate threads for simultaneous debate (unless you want to invite everyone here)
Everything is possible, the impossible just takes longer.
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