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| Discussion of Recent Administrative Actions | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 2 2010, 07:30:47 PM (3,661 Views) | |
| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 2 2010, 07:30:47 PM Post #1 |
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Cool like Snakes
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I have moved this discussion here so that those who wish to partake it may continue to discuss the issue, while those who feel that they "had" to partake it do not necessarily have to contribute. I am establishing some guidelines in this discussion thread. The argument is about finding checks and balances for administrative functions. This is the perceived problem and if more than one active player feels it is a problem, I am inclined to believe that it holds more merit than the passive shrugging off of concerns by inactive members. So I ask that you keep the topic to finding a solution to maintaining the balance of power rather than arguing whether or not one feels the need for a solution. Thank you! ![]() -----Original Post----- Respected Magisters, A few months ago I began pushing my campaign to restructure the leadership and power structures within TEP. Admittedly, my campaign's main objective was to dismantle the control and power that a delegate had within all regional affairs. During Todd's term as delegate, I saw several concerning aspects that prompted my desire to run for delegacy and work on correcting those mishaps. I do believe that I have been successful in correcting the notion and idea that a delegate is an independent decision maker in TEP and that the delegate is not a "leadership" position as it is a "figurehead" position, a voice and face representing the region's wishes. A delegate should be someone who acts on behalf of the region and should not act independently. As such, this is how I have been running my term as delegate thus far and I believe it has worked wonderfully. I see the Magisterium becoming a sole separate entity, working within itself to create the rules, guidelines, and laws of The East Pacific. The Conclave is also working on its own agenda although new Arbiters are needed. I see previous members who struggled to find a niche blossoming and finding their own roles independent of positions in TEP. Truth be told, personally I am very pleased with the region's performance during my term....all of you acting independently from me. But then....I see a flaw. There is a large crack in the ideal image I had for this region. When I first began my campaign I wanted to separate the administrative roles from the government roles. And on a theoretical level, it sounds like a wonderful idea. It made sense at the time because I trusted our administrative staff. At the time I believed that they all were competent players with the knowledge, skills, and experience needed to perform their roles. Alas, I believe now that I was mistaken. I learned that not all of them are objective unbiased players and that this push of mine to remove the administrative functions from the government was perhaps a bad idea. Without government involvement, who keeps the admins in line? Recently I have been removed of my administrative powers without any notice, consultation, or warning. Previously Todd had been removed from his administrative functions as well, under the guise that all administrators converged and voted on who does and does not get administrative functions and no consultation was made for his appointment. However, this recent act lacked any discussion, communication, warning, or recent consensus. Just someone deciding they were going to act independently. This concerns me because this is exactly what I have been meaning to counter in our region.....players with real power acting independently of the region. Now while I am not much concerned about not having administrative powers since the only time I have ever used the administrative functions was for a joke in Reziel's signature, I am offended that our administrative staff would take such actions without any warning, consultation, or communication. There was absolutely nothing which does little to help the construction and development of our community. I am inclined to believe that you all as Magisters need to step in and create laws concerning the need for administrative functions to be regulated. While I used to believe that perhaps this was a bad idea, I was mistaken and I can easily eat my own words when I realize the potential for abuse is much higher having one or few people having power to institute their own wills independent of any checks or balances. At least delegates have to answer to the region. Who do the admins need to answer to? I bring this forward not as an attack against any one admin but as the systematic whole. What if one of your own starts acting according to their own desires? What if one of your own quits asking your opinions and starts performing actions without a collective decision? What if someone goes ahead and removes a function that was previously instilled in the government without government consensus? I ask these questions because this is the dilemma we are now faced and we as a region need to decide how to deal with this concern. I motion to open decision on this situation to the whole of the region. This is one decision I personally want the entire region's input on and how we go about resolving this problem. DFD |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 2 2010, 08:04:38 PM Post #2 |
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Planet Telox
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I must also echo DFD’s concerns. While our government has multiple checks and balances at the desire of those who created our concordat over one year ago, the admin team does not have a check and balance. Honestly, I was okay with that, because we just assumed they were okay and we were just establishing the government, not trying to change the dynamics as far as adminship goes. It is concerning to me, therefore, when something like this happens. DFD told me privately before this happened that she wanted to present the notion to the Magisterium that a delegate should have admin powers removed. I agreed with her. However, it appears her powers had been removed without an announcement or vote by the admin team or Magisterium (of course). My admin powers had been removed once without a vote too, and, when an admin gave me moderator powers (which was a nice gesture), it was removed again. All without any warning or consulting. It’s not that I’m power hungry, prideful, or demand whatever, but it was disheartening to me. I felt like maybe I did something really wrong or wasn’t trusted by admin members or member, which hurt, but I decided to not to comment. I didn’t want to take it too personally, just work for the betterment of the region. I later found out that it was not a decision carried by the entire admin team, which concerns me also. While DFD and I may not agree with delegate philosophies all of the time (and that’s perfectly fine, lol), I agree with her on this point. I believe there should be a certain system that keeps these responsibilities and decisions in check, but I am not going to say how or what – I have suggestions, but that’s all up to you, the Magisters, to decide. It worries me that the government is held responsible, roleplayers are held responsible, but for the administration, I am not aware of any checks in place for them. I can let it slide a little when it happens to me, right or wrong. But when it happens to another one, a friend, that really concerns me. I don't want to cause trouble or make people feel bad. I just think this needs to be worked on, is all. I ask the Magisterium to please review this. Thank you for your time. - Todd. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kandarin | Jun 2 2010, 08:56:04 PM Post #3 |
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Ferret princess
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I suppose I should add my input, as I was the admin that directly made the change (though not unilaterally, as I shall explain). The Delegate usergroup started having Admin power in its own right at the time of the creation of the Concordat. Of our previous delegates, Loop is the root admin and Gnidrah had admin access prior to receiving the delegacy. Traditionally, global mods and admins are appointed after at least some private discussion by existing global mods and admins in the forum's global mod/admin subforum. Having elections for Delegate be an election for Admin by fiat changed the dynamic, bringing game politics into forum operation and meshing two fundamentally different jobs. It also raised the stakes in elections by making Delegate elections into Admin elections (and by connection making a loss of Delegacy into a sudden loss of Admin power, as Todd experienced above). The wisdom of this policy has been questioned before, starting with concerns with it originally expressed by DFD soon after her election. Seeing it as a potential long-term problem, I proposed a number of changes to admin policy in the mod/admin subforum a little over a month ago. I proposed that Delegates and Viceroys should have access to the admin forum since those positions need to request admin actions often, but that the Delegate position should no longer have admin powers and the Viceroy position should not receive them. I sent PMs to all active admins asking them to review the proposal and approve, critique, or disapprove of it. In the following week or so, all active admins dropped by and said that they agreed with the motion. When I logged on today, I realized that I had proposed these changes, run a vote and gotten approval from the people who are normally in charge of approving such things, and then hadn't done anything further with it for almost a whole month. I believed that prolonging the process further would raise the risk of the changes occurring close to or during an election and thus appearing to be done on account of the outcome of an election rather than a desire for general good policy. I also believed that doing so with the current group of officials would be best; I would not be tinkering with the access of an incumbent Viceroy, and DFD has always voiced a disinterest in having any Admin role as Delegate, to the point of being the first person to question the prior policy. So I went ahead and made the changes. I didn't post an announcement because I didn't want what was a general policy change to have any appearance of being politically charged, and because everyone affected had already at least seen the proposal without objections. I hope this sheds some light on what goes on in the mod/admin backroom. As you can see, we're very slow to act when it comes to changing policy, and sometimes this can lead to something being implemented a while after it was discussed. |
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 2 2010, 09:05:06 PM Post #4 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Then I motion to have Kandarin's administrative powers barred. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 2 2010, 10:21:50 PM Post #5 |
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Number One Drone
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That action seems thoroughly unjustified. Kandarin proposed a change in administrative policy, waited a month for an objection from anyone with administrative access, then acted when no one objected. The chain of events here does not indicate any wrongdoing. The real question here is whether the board administration ought to be made a part of the government. Putting aside any theory, let me go with an old piece of advice: if it isn't broken, don't fix it. This recent act aside, the government and the administration have never stood at odds, and I simply do not see that happening at any point. Let us remember that it is 1 Infinite Loop, ultimately, that holds control over the boards. If we can't trust Loop, well, what are we doing here? |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Warr | Jun 2 2010, 10:27:13 PM Post #6 |
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Warr
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Seconded. |
"Last Arrow in Necessities Quiver."![]() Survival is victory; because the last one standing is the one who tells the tale. The High Kingdom of Warre on NSWiki | |
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| Allegheny | Jun 2 2010, 10:29:31 PM Post #7 |
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Partly Cloudy
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I'm so confused right now. Let's not get too crazy about this admin stuff guys, this is the same kinda path that destroyed the old region i used to frequent. |
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| Chancellor Shaw | Jun 3 2010, 01:14:10 AM Post #8 |
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Bill Stickers is Innocent
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Perhaps I am not seeing the whole picture, as I have only been around here for about four months now, but surmising from DFDs, Todds, and Kandarins posts perhaps what could have avoided all of this was a little bit more openness between the Admins and the Delegate? It seems as though DFD is not lamenting the loss of admin power, but rather the sudden and, to her, seemingly random loss of it at the hands of what very well could have been an independently acting admin. If DFD had been involved in the PMs between Kandarin and the other Admins concerning the removal of power, and then been informed of when this removal would take place, then all would have been open and understood. I see no reason for secrecy as far as Admin actions are concerned, shouldn't the Delegate (the highest ranked publicly elected official) be able to know what is going on between all other groups? Then again, I am but a lowly citizen, who knows not the trials and tribulations of Delegates and Administrators. And I may be misunderstanding the situation too.
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Thank you for your time Chancellor Shaw, of the Free Land of Moafin Moafin Wiki: under construction Moafin Q&A
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 3 2010, 01:25:50 AM Post #9 |
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Cool like Snakes
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First off, I proposed the changes, not Kandarin. Kandarin did not run a vote on it. Please find me the Magisterium thread suggesting otherwise and I will take that point into consideration. When I first became delegate, I proposed access changes to hear what the administrators said first. I was then going to run it through the Magisterium to make such changes official. It was not Kandarin who proposed such changes like he claims, it was me. Evidently though, I get absolutely no credit for any of my ideas. Secondly, Kandarin so happened to make this move without anyone's approval or discussion. I was under the impression the administrative functions would be removed after my term, not midway through it. He acted on his own accord. I also cannot help but point out the coincidential timing which this occured. Mind you, we just got into a fight and magically my admin powers have been stripped. Odd timing to suddenly feel the need to institute changes. It is not too much to ask for some courtesy. A simple "hey DFD, I am going to remove your powers" or even a "hey DFD I did remove your powers." I am not a fan of passive aggressive nonsense or of people who hide behind their powers. Let's face it, I have buried myself tons of time in TEP speaking my mind. I call the shots as I see them and right now, I am saying Kandarin is crossing the line. I used to advocate for him, plenty of times. I stood by him tons of times and truth be told still will, but this....courtesy, simple courtesy. If you cannot trust your administrative forum staff, who can you trust? Honestly, I want no part of TEP when things like this happen. When admins can just do whatever they feel like and give no justification, no warning, nothing to explain their actions. The very least Kandarin could have done was drop me a PM, MSN, anything. But no, he removes my powers after a fight and says nothing to anyone. Not that every single action he has recorded in length before. I am sorry if I think that he has taken this personally.....but given the situation it would be hard for any of you not to feel that way either. So my solution is if you do not want to hold Kandarin for his error and bar Kandarin's admin powers, I suggest that the Magisterium make Todd an admin. That way Kandarin has a check and balance because right now, he has free reign of this region and no one there to stop him. This is why I took action to become delegate in the first place and one of my major goals as delegate. Instituting and maintaining checks and balances. All facets should be regulated, admins included. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 3 2010, 01:28:06 AM Post #10 |
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Cool like Snakes
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You have summarized my concerns clearly. Thank you for reading the problem Shaw and understanding it! You hit the nail on the head! ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Chancellor Shaw | Jun 3 2010, 03:02:56 AM Post #11 |
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Bill Stickers is Innocent
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I'm glad I didn't misunderstand. I don't think it is asking too much for you to know, as the Delegate, what is going on and to have a bit of input. Especially with major changes. In my humble opinion, the more honest and open everything is kept the better off we all are. And, like you said, it is just simple, common courtesy. Calling it like it is can have the unfortunate side effect of causing a few of awkward moments, but in the end as long as we can all keep things civil I believe it is usually the best route. I hope a solution can be reached that everyone is happy with, I wouldn't mind Todd becoming an Admin if that will work. |
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Thank you for your time Chancellor Shaw, of the Free Land of Moafin Moafin Wiki: under construction Moafin Q&A
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| Warr | Jun 3 2010, 02:08:35 PM Post #12 |
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Warr
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Just for everyone to get to see the thread where it was discussed. |
"Last Arrow in Necessities Quiver."![]() Survival is victory; because the last one standing is the one who tells the tale. The High Kingdom of Warre on NSWiki | |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 3 2010, 02:54:59 PM Post #13 |
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Planet Telox
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Everyone, I think it appears to be something as simple as just informing and keeping everyone "in the Loop" (no pun intended, lol). Reading over the post presented by Warre, it might have been better to have a post explain "well, since people seem okay with it, I'm going to do it in ___ # of days, is everyone okay with that?" Or something like that. I think it's mostly a breakdown in communication, which is fixable, of course, but yeah. There have been proposals to kind of balance things out and work on things, but since they involve me directly, I don't think am in a position to comment on them unless asked to do so. I have faith it'll be ironed out. So yeah... we should simmer down a bit and kind of either step back and think things over or work constructively to remedy the problem. And when a member or members feel like something's off, especially if the members are very important to the region (which involves everyone here), there's a problem. But again, I have faith things will be established where everyone can kind of rebound from this. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| The Angel of Death | Jun 3 2010, 06:07:52 PM Post #14 |
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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RTc32qBpAk&NR=1[/YOUTUBE] |
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| East Malaysia | Jun 4 2010, 01:00:39 AM Post #15 |
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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I would have to say that this all could have more than likely been avoided if communication was better between the administrative side and to people who had admin powers. Its basically the same concept as if you get fired but they don't tell you and you come into work and see you're off the schedule. It all comes down to courtesy. But what is done: is done; clearly. We just need to work together so the miscommunication is prevented. Maybe some sort of oversight would work? |
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Question with Boldness >Sovereign Empire of East Malaysia [url]East Malaysia @ NSWiki[/url] - WIP The Eastrovia Times wwt.et.em Embassy - Coming Soon Character List - Updating Soon >Forum Support ![]() >>>Forum Descriptions Rework<<< >>>Tapatalk Migration Information<<< #forum-help-center \ Mod/admin requests \ Board Rules \ Internet Safety & You \ ZB TOS & TOU Emergency Contact: east.malaysia@mail.theeastpacific.com (forwards directly to my personal email)
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 4 2010, 01:11:17 AM Post #16 |
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Cool like Snakes
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This is basically what I have been saying. I know I present the argument crudely, but when have I been graceful? :lol: I am merely suggesting that we institute some sort of checks and balances to hold administrators accountable for their actions. The way I see it right now is that there are no checks and balances, no sort of system of accountability for administrators. We have a system for all people in this game but the administrators. I really believe that a system needs to be orgnanized to keep the balance of power fair for all people in the future. ![]() [Note: I am now reconsidering my stance on the delegate not having admin powers. Not because I want them.....I have never used them with the exception of a joke once, but because someone needs to hold others accountable.] |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| East Malaysia | Jun 4 2010, 01:21:34 AM Post #17 |
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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In the stilettos, I thought you were very graceful... ![]() Maybe one person appointed from the other branches... they would solve oversight and be representative of other the branches. Not saying people appointed should have real powers just enough to play the check and balance role while not really interfering with the admins. |
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Question with Boldness >Sovereign Empire of East Malaysia [url]East Malaysia @ NSWiki[/url] - WIP The Eastrovia Times wwt.et.em Embassy - Coming Soon Character List - Updating Soon >Forum Support ![]() >>>Forum Descriptions Rework<<< >>>Tapatalk Migration Information<<< #forum-help-center \ Mod/admin requests \ Board Rules \ Internet Safety & You \ ZB TOS & TOU Emergency Contact: east.malaysia@mail.theeastpacific.com (forwards directly to my personal email)
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| packilvania | Jun 4 2010, 08:21:14 AM Post #18 |
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Caliph
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The point of an Admin is to have unchecked power. Only the most trusted members of a community should become admins. We do have a mod status that we can grant for forum stuff. An Admin is supposed to be trusted to fulfill his/her role, without inhibiting the forum/game in any way. Take my role for example. All I try to do is cull spum and watch for Corky/Corky-esque posts. I have only taken one severe action ever, and I think i was a mod at the time. (When I banned Gov.) |
![]() "The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate." Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned. DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry. Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose. | |
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| Kandarin | Jun 4 2010, 03:21:58 PM Post #19 |
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Ferret princess
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I do agree that my error here was not announcing the change at the time of its implementation, and for that I apologize. It is clear that the sum of the disagreement boils down to this, and to limited communication with the admin group in general. Since that is the problem, that is what needs to be regulated and formalized. From this conversation, it is apparent that the problem is not unilateral actions but the perception that (while multilateral) admin decisions are going on behind closed doors. For instance, in this case I know that DFD saw the thread in question when it was posted, but I ought not to have presumed that that constituted a detailed review of it on her part, her clear stance on the matter beforehand notwithstanding. Fortunately, there isn't necessarily a conflict of interest here, since unlike many other forums we don't really have anything to hide. We have only one admin/mod forum, and discussions on site policy changes (and they are few) all take place there. Currently, the Delegate and Viceroy usergroups can see and comment on this discussion as a part of their regular need for Admin actions. I would suggest that this be extended to the Provost as well, bringing all branches of the government into the discussion. Furthermore, to avoid miscommunications like this in the future, I think it would not be unreasonable to have an admin log kept up on the Admin Announcements forum. This would include all changes, not merely large ones with broad political impact as it is now. If a change not included in the log were noticed, it would be clear abuse, not merely suspected abuse, and the root admin (Loop) could be consulted on who was responsible. |
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"
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| East Malaysia | Jun 5 2010, 12:38:01 AM Post #20 |
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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I have to say that I really do like what you have suggested Kand. |
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Question with Boldness >Sovereign Empire of East Malaysia [url]East Malaysia @ NSWiki[/url] - WIP The Eastrovia Times wwt.et.em Embassy - Coming Soon Character List - Updating Soon >Forum Support ![]() >>>Forum Descriptions Rework<<< >>>Tapatalk Migration Information<<< #forum-help-center \ Mod/admin requests \ Board Rules \ Internet Safety & You \ ZB TOS & TOU Emergency Contact: east.malaysia@mail.theeastpacific.com (forwards directly to my personal email)
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 5 2010, 12:52:31 AM Post #21 |
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Cool like Snakes
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First, I must say, I watched The West Pacific collapse under an "Old Guard". That region failed dismally when they put more emphasis on protecting the wishes and desires of members who are barely active in the game and community because they held a power obtained years ago. I am not trying to say we need to remove administrators or take away their power, but come on you guys.....would you look at it for a seond? You have been given these positions how many years ago? How many of those people that were around then are really around now? And by around now I mean being active, involved, not just logging on here and there and occassionally contributing. Regions fail when the members involved cannot continue to progress, when they hold onto these archaic positions obtained years ago when the members who instituted them are long since passed. Case in point....TWP prior to its revival and The Rejected Realms currently. Now this is not directed as an insult or an attack against our current administrative team. I really do like our administrative staff and have been friends with some and have no qualms with others. My point of discussion is that Kandarin abused his powers. I wanted him to admit that he had and hold himself accountable to his failures. Unfortunately, his self-righteous attitude is preventing him from seeing his failure and apologizing to the person to whom he "screwed over" for lack of better terms. The failure therein lies in a removal of my powers conveniently after we got into a fight off-site, with no warning, justification, notification, anything. Now....for someone who places such a high emphasis on being this perfect embodiment of respect, I find that very disrespectful and daresay malicious. I mean, would it be fair for me to just ban people because they upset me when I am the delegate? Sure, I can come up with elaborate excuses as to why that person should have been banned and why that action is justified, but just because I can eloquently present an argument does not justify the reaction. The reaction is Kandarin acting in potential malice and using a series of eloquent justifications to make it such. Honestly, let us examine his role and moves in this region. He has kept a log of every action he has taken. He claims to seek administrative approval before acting. Even if he did in fact have consensus, does anyone not find it odd that he had months to enact it and only enacted it after getting into a fight with me, suddenly out of the blue? Additionally, he made no log of this action....an action I had specficially stated would need to be voted on by the Magisterium to make it official. Does anyone see a thread in the Magisterium with the Magisters agreement? Does anyone see a thread logging the action of removal? Did anyone know about this prior to me mentioning it? Again, this whole issue could have easily been prevented if Kandarin had just spoken to me before or even after, but he had not. For someone who had no problems discussing things with me in the past, actions he had previously taken, I find it incredibly peculiar that suddenly after a fight I lose powers and he has not mentioned a thing to me. So do I think this was done in malice? Absolutely. I daresay given the same situation any of you put in my shoes would feel the exact same way. And I know others have felt that way because they were put in similiar situations. Do I think Kandarin has a silver-tongue and will find any way to convince you he is right? Absolutely. The unfortunate drawback of people in his situation is no one ever stops to doubt that perhaps he is talking with a silver tongue and trying to convince himself that what he did was not wrong. I am saying this because we were friends and when a friend does something like this with no justification, I begin to question the level of friendship and the level of trust. If admins are trusted people, then why is Kandarin doing what he did? Again, this is not an attack against all admins. But the situation did make me see a problem that will and has arisen when situations like this occur. When our only active admins are Kandarin and Pack.....well, who holds who accountable? Especially when both are disconnected from the actual on-goings of TEP? Case in point being BGP's offensive avatar....which has been noticed by many of us as players and has gone unseen by admins. We need something. I agree that yes the admins should be trusted members. But this is beginning to sound like an "old boy's club" when those trusted members can only be members who have been selected years ago. And if a single month is a long time in NS time, six months becomes a year in NS time.....years in RL is a lifetime in NS time. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| packilvania | Jun 5 2010, 08:26:12 AM Post #22 |
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Caliph
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To a point, this is why I tried to establish more of a Mod staff. |
![]() "The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate." Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned. DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry. Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose. | |
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| Kandarin | Jun 5 2010, 01:31:57 PM Post #23 |
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Ferret princess
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I'm not going to confess to a malice that isn't real. I owe it to you not to lie to you. My mistake here began and ended with neglecting to send out a notification at the time, and for that I have apologized. The timing may have sucked, but a suspicion of malicious motives does not cause those motives to come into existence. If we must delve deeper into my motives, this action came on the tail of our conversation the previous night about the dispute between Todd/Warr/TAO and Alejandro. In it, you proposed that the real, meaningful contributions to a region are those contributions that are done spontaneously - not because of others' urging or because of the duties of a position. That made an impression on me and so I logged on the next day wondering what it is that I could contribute that wasn't the result of someone asking me to or a job. And then I realized there was this thing that I'd said I would do, that I'd checked around with everyone I thought I needed approval from, and then hadn't done for a month. You have a wonderful talent for encouraging people to think and drive themselves to contribute in their own way and find their own innovative solutions, which is very helpful to people like me who sometimes need a push to get moving on things. This was no exception to that. That's not very exciting, but it is the truth of the matter. Now, that lack of a communique on the change did blow the lid off of a bigger problem, which is the lack of insight into what the admin group is doing by the rest of the forum. I haven't kept a log of every mod or admin action I've taken, and neither has anyone else. The only logs that anyone keeps of admin actions are the automatic ones that only the root admin can see. Right now, and for a long time, it's been hit-or-miss whether Admin actions are recorded or announced to anyone. I can't speak for the other admins, but I haven't been recording it when I've banned adbots, or enabled Quick Reply on some subforums that didn't have it, or when I did stuff like putting Dyr Nasad in the Provost usergroup when I saw that he won the Provost election. But that's a bad precedent to set, since admins sometimes fail to predict when something unannounced might be controversial due to a political or timing issue that wasn't foreseen, as with this or the aforementioned BGP avatar-removal. So we should require every admin action to be logged in an accessible place, to keep misunderstandings like this from getting out of proportion. |
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"
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| Dyr Nasad | Jun 6 2010, 10:37:58 PM Post #24 |
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Slave to the Hive Mind
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I just got back from a long trip..and this is what I see .. I'll probably have an semi-intelligible response later..but really guys?
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| Everything is possible, the impossible just takes longer. | |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 6 2010, 10:42:22 PM Post #25 |
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Planet Telox
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Welcome back from your trip, Dyr
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Dyr Nasad | Jun 6 2010, 10:57:49 PM Post #26 |
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Slave to the Hive Mind
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Thanks! |
| Everything is possible, the impossible just takes longer. | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 7 2010, 12:31:00 AM Post #27 |
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Cool like Snakes
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A generic apology to the forum does not constitute as a sincere apology to the person that you harmed. If you were sincere, I would have probably seen a telegram or PM explaining yourself. Reason one why I am not buying your response....you have told me all the actions you have taken as an admin yet mentioned nothing about this to me. Reason two. You failed to mention why you acted WITHOUT the Magisterium's consent, which was again part of my plan that you ever so gracefully enacted. Reason three. You failed to explain why you have taken similiar actions against Todd. Again, I understand you need to tell yourself you are right to help yourself sleep at night. It is human nature. But again, from someone who has been calculating, thoughtful, and often taking a great period of time to respond so that his responses come off correctly, I find it incredibly odd the sudden enactment of this, the lack of communication, and again the timing. I am having a difficult time believing that all those failed calculations slipped your mind, when in the past, you have been an incredibly detailed person. It also does not explain how you did not consult me prior to this if I was an admin at the time. I also realize that you are trying to "save face" in this whole ordeal, which is preventing you from speaking openly, but now is not the time to worry about reputations. They have been trashed. What is more important to you? A friendship or your online identity? |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 7 2010, 12:55:29 AM Post #28 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Please read the introduction of this thread before responding further. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 7 2010, 01:01:52 AM Post #29 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Alright, well as it stands, we need solutions again to resolving the issue of how to maintain the power balance between administrators and players. I believe it was suggested somewhere that we vote for admins. I believe we could work on instituting a voting procedure. It seems like a simple issue to institute and holds admins accountable for their actions as well as emphasizing the importance to continued active involvement in the region. A system of feedback is needed. Threads are not necessarily all that is needed since we have admin logs which admins fail to report in. There are certain questions we need to ask ourselves in this and work it into the proposal: * Can an Admin stand on trial in Conclave? * Should all Admins have an active WA nation WITHIN TEP? * What type of feedback is needed to break the divide between Admins, government, and players? * If we are going to maintain the divided role of admin and government, should Admins be allowed to participate in the government? If you can think of more questions that need to be resolved, let me know so I can add them to this list. ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Kandarin | Jun 7 2010, 02:44:56 AM Post #30 |
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Ferret princess
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I just want to say unequivocally that I screwed up with the non-invites and non-communication here. Screwups having reasons don't change the fact that they are screwups. I can understand how a reasonable person could take it as something worse, and there's really no way around that. Sorry about all this mess. |
"Torpored Caitiff Antediluvian"
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7:29 PM Jul 10