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| Discussion of Recent Administrative Actions | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 2 2010, 07:30:47 PM (3,662 Views) | |
| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 8 2010, 05:51:23 PM Post #61 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Pack....think you can be made a root admin? It might actually help the situation if we can get you root admin. I want Loop to still be involved still because he has done nothing wrong; I just think we also need someone more active to help out. ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Alejandro the Penguin | Jun 8 2010, 06:06:02 PM Post #62 |
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The Alejandro Factor
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I dun finks IF allows that. |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 8 2010, 06:08:21 PM Post #63 |
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Planet Telox
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I would second this. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kurogasa | Jun 8 2010, 06:20:52 PM Post #64 |
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Viceroy
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Why's now loop being named around?, I'm guessing that in the forum at least someone is capable of finding him and calling him if he's needed... as FPS said, if it isn't broken... |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 8 2010, 06:42:24 PM Post #65 |
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Planet Telox
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Well, Pack does pay for the domain name. Plus, Pack is more active than Loop these days since I believe Loop has found the holy grail that is real-life. Pack's been here for a while, and checks in here nearly daily. This isn't a shot against Loop, it's just that Pack is more active and has the same level of trust, as far as I am concerned. Plus, two heads can be better than one. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 9 2010, 12:24:00 AM Post #66 |
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Cool like Snakes
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I fail to understand how a mention of a fact translates as a personal attack. Loop is not active does not translate to LOOP IS THE BAD!!!!1211111!!!1!!1! It is just a simple, Loop is not active. That is not an attack, it is an observation. The same as you are tall, you are short, you are round, I am DFD, DFD is a loaded pistol, Kandarin made a mistake, Todd wants delegacy, Reziel is away, Warr is a conservative, FPS has been gone for a year, Pack wants to assimiliate all of TEP, or Terasu is pure awesomeness. Yes, that is a fact, not an opinion. ![]() I think some people need to step back from assuming observations are personal attacks. I see the source of much emotional ties to this discussion stemming from the mistaken belief that an observation or fact is a direct personal attack. If I were calling out Loop, I would be more angry and drop some unpleasant words in there. *meloves my unpleasant words when attacking people* ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Nalt | Jun 9 2010, 12:37:53 AM Post #67 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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Could we even change Roots if Loop named a successor? I thought the point of a root admin was that it could never be changed like a founder of a region. June 2 was a week ago, a long time to wait without a forum if an admin went insane. (Not that I think that would ever happen... But I trusted the admin of the other region too.) |
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| Kandarin | Jun 9 2010, 12:53:23 AM Post #68 |
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Ferret princess
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I think the question of wrongdoing was settled a while ago. I screwed up, that's acknowledged, but there's no damage done in the long run and so it's not worth debating further. As Todd said above - open and shut. But it blew the lid off of issues that are far more serious than one little incident, so those are the topic at hand. As to Loop's activity, I don't think it can be doubted that Loop is inactive. Yes, he's on, but keeping tabs on one's admins requires either constant scrutiny of what's going on on the boards or ability to hear and investigate any and all complaints from citizens. Loop is not anywhere near active enough to do either of those things (For instance, he didn't reply in the Admin discussion on delegate powers either, despite getting a PM) and we cannot compel him to be so. Probably the only admin that active at the moment is me, but we've seen how imperfect my involvement is and in any case you won't even be able to count on that in a couple of months. So if we want to function, we're going to need multiple new admins and some ground rules for managing same. As far as Root Admin roles go, I'm all in favor of giving it to Pack. Pack's trustworthiness is indisputable at this point, and we need a more active root.
I don't know if we can change roots, but we can have more than one root. At some point, Loop added Megalocyathus to the Root Admin group (though she's not active either), so he has the ability to add someone else if he wishes. We can't change Roots per se, but we certainly could get Loop to add Pack as a new Root. |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 9 2010, 01:39:20 AM Post #69 |
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Cool like Snakes
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It IS broken. There is no arguing that. ![]() Another fact/observation....not an attack. ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Alejandro the Penguin | Jun 9 2010, 09:27:02 AM Post #70 |
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The Alejandro Factor
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IT IS BROKEN YASH |
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| Reziel | Jun 9 2010, 10:26:28 AM Post #71 |
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Eternal Delegate
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Ditto! |
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Armis Exposcere Pacem They demanded peace by force of arms ![]()
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 9 2010, 10:31:12 AM Post #72 |
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Planet Telox
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Allow me to expand on this. The fact that there are a good deal of concerned members regarding the state of how this was handled and other past events (Todd has done his homework and contacted people within this week and in past events to see what is up with that), shows that there is at least a shaken confidence. In short, that is how it is broken - members of the region have had their confidence shaken, and things that should have been handled well have not been. I'm not going to beat a dead horse over this - we know what happened and we should be reasonably aware that events have taken place in the past that have affected a good amount of members that are here now and who have been here at some point. That's happened, and it doesn't make sense to deny that there are at least some problems that people are concerned about, because denying it will only lead to more problems, in my opinion. Now, there have already been measures taken to try and begin remedying the situation. DFD has had her admin status restored and I'm sure in time will present the idea of removing admin status for the next delegate, which will most likely be set into action. Kandarin has admitted his error, another step forward. The problem I see next is keeping the region from splitting into camps. There is a camp that believes there are problems and things need to change, then there's another camp that believes there may or may not be problems but it doesn't merit big changes. While differences of opinion is what makes the world go round, I would keep a watchful eye on this to make sure this doesn't turn into a divide. Regardless of the position, I believe things should and will change. A different approach of the admin team / reorganization / hiring new admins / making Pact a root / seems to be the proposed changes for the admin team, and this has my support as well. However, I believe there should be more changes, outlined in one of my above posts. I see multiple divides or potential for divides, and that is my greatest concern. For it isn't problems like this that destroy regions (on the contrary, conflict can in fact be healthy at times), it's how they are handled. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Reziel | Jun 9 2010, 10:32:40 AM Post #73 |
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Eternal Delegate
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Armis Exposcere Pacem They demanded peace by force of arms ![]()
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 9 2010, 10:41:28 AM Post #74 |
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Planet Telox
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YOU are BACK!!! Life is good! |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Reziel | Jun 9 2010, 10:51:41 AM Post #75 |
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Eternal Delegate
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Yup... but I'll have to wait till tomorrow to get my MSN back, as my own computer is still under maintenance, lol. Look at the bright side, my friend... you have some hours more to prepare a brief and straight-to.the-heart summarization of this hell!
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Armis Exposcere Pacem They demanded peace by force of arms ![]()
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 9 2010, 11:12:21 AM Post #76 |
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Planet Telox
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Will do! I'll get to work on it, lol |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 9 2010, 01:06:23 PM Post #77 |
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Number One Drone
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While telling someone that s/he is "round" may be factual, for the record, I highly advise against it, especially if the individual is a she. ![]() With regards to the debate at hand, I do suppose that given Loop's inactivity, a restructuring may be in order. But the suggestion that the administrative team be expanded to have ten active people is a bit much. A small group -- 4-5 including the root -- ought to be more than enough to do the job. The only evidence I can provide towards that fact is that Kandarin and Pack, essentially alone, have successfully administered this board for months. I really don't see the need for more than a RP admin, a couple tech admins, a gov admin (the viceroy), and the root admin as such. Regarding the appointment of admins, I definitely think it ought to be an internal affair, with the root holding ultimate authority. Perhaps, on the RP admin, it could be a joint root/delegate appointment. But at least for the technicals, it should be completely root-decided. EDIT: Regardless of what is decided, as a sidenote, we do ultimately need Loop's approval. Just something to keep in mind. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 9 2010, 02:21:17 PM Post #78 |
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Planet Telox
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Oh wow. Yeah, ten active admins would be way too much. Currently, we have four active admins: yourself, Kand, Kelssek, and Pack. It's being suggested that Pack be moved to root (pending what we all agree on and Loop's approval, of course), and Kand has said he will end up getting busier when it comes to grad school (as a person who made the switch from undergrad to grad, I can attest, it's a pretty big jump, at least it was for me, lol). Adding extra admins might decrease that gap between 'really old members' and 'fairly new members', and would be another person or people to bounce ideas off of. People with experience in that department would be an investment too. So, 1-2 more admins should be something to look into, in my opinion. I have ideas as to who'd be good for it, but yeah ![]() Roleplay... maybe one admin, one mod for that? Or one admin, two mods? I don't know. And I'm pretty sure any viceroy will need to have admin status. It just makes too much sense otherwise - they're in charge of elections and in charge of masking citizens (after they check citizen status, of course). |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| East Malaysia | Jun 9 2010, 06:39:39 PM Post #79 |
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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And EM is lurking in the background... boo! like a ghostI would have to agree that we shouldn't have an excess of admins tho |
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Question with Boldness >Sovereign Empire of East Malaysia [url]East Malaysia @ NSWiki[/url] - WIP The Eastrovia Times wwt.et.em Embassy - Coming Soon Character List - Updating Soon >Forum Support ![]() >>>Forum Descriptions Rework<<< >>>Tapatalk Migration Information<<< #forum-help-center \ Mod/admin requests \ Board Rules \ Internet Safety & You \ ZB TOS & TOU Emergency Contact: east.malaysia@mail.theeastpacific.com (forwards directly to my personal email)
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 9 2010, 06:43:47 PM Post #80 |
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Planet Telox
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A ghost that can't be broke!! |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 9 2010, 07:17:38 PM Post #81 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Well, since I lost the original, I'll make this one shorter. ![]() While no one will argue that ten admins are too many and that four and five seem reasonable, the argument is in the need for those four or five admins to be active admins. We can anticipate having Pack as our only active and stable admin in the upcoming months. And while I have absolutely no doubt that Pack can competently and capablely handle the job, I think it would be unfair to place that responsibility on Pack alone as RL has a way of unknowingly creeping up on people. While our current admin has served us well in the past and have been excellent members of our community, many have fallen to inactivity or will be expected shortly to not be around. This places the need of bringing in new admins. So herein lies the dilemma, do we add new admins or do we replace the old ones? Few of us want to remove the old admins as there seems little to no need to do such, so we have been proposing additional admins to fill the need. In the next few months are admin team will be just Pack on a regular basis. Loop and Kandarin may or may not blink into existence to check things once in a blue moon. FPS, while he is back now, has been gone for a year and personally I am reluctant to depend on him to be active without more information regarding his current state, although having him active will be an added bonus. Kelssek is missing in action and his reliability has taken the hit. Megalocyathus, Space Nurse, SysOP, and Thel D'Ran are either puppet admin accounts or have been off the face of TEP for years. So we have Pack as our only guarentee. Also to note, I may push to abolish the role of RP admin altogether. There is actually no need for an admin role to control RP. RP mods are more than sufficient to cover the grounds needed in that position. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 9 2010, 09:03:00 PM Post #82 |
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Number One Drone
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I've given this matter a considerable amount of thought and come to a few conclusions (that do not necessarily go hand-in-hand with my earlier statements). But thankfully, I am not much of an elected politician, so I can flip-flop with ease. The administration absolutely requires reform but that reform ought to be comprehensive. We ought to appoint a new root admin, determine what other admins need to exist, and "retire" those currently inactive administrators. There is not disrespect in this suggestion, merely pragmatism. This is my personal suggestion for reform: move Pack up to root administrator. Make Kandarin a technical administrator. Make another individual a technical administrator (I suggest a newer member). Make the viceroy an administrator. Given that the role of RP administrator was created for me, I feel I am in a unique position to agree that it is no longer necessary, and that the existence of a couple RP Moderators ought to be enough. A couple global mods in addition to this might not be a bad idea, depending on the requests of the administration. For the record, I feel the government should exert no control over the administration, except in that the viceroy automatically receives powers. EDIT: Megalocyathus is a backup account retained by Loop in case of problems with his main account. Space Nurse and SysOp are testing accounts for use by the administration. Thel D'Ran created the skin of the East Pacific, a couple years ago, and retained powers thereafter in case anything went wrong with it. Given that it's now been two years and that the skin is still going strong, I'm sure he can be removed without issue. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Jun 10 2010, 02:43:26 AM Post #83 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Sounds reasonable FPS! The government part I still need to think about. I see the pros and cons with government involvement and have yet to take a firm stance either way yet. We can leave the government out of admin affairs to an extent. My greatest concern is to the extent of what do we do when an admin breaks the rules? I think Conclave may embark on answering that question and perhaps we should leave it to them to decide on the course of action for admin trials. I just think we need to factor this problem into our actions before we stick to a set resolution. ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Alejandro the Penguin | Jun 10 2010, 08:20:52 AM Post #84 |
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The Alejandro Factor
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If an admin fucks up (pardon my French), then he or she warrants a Conclave trial. Simple. |
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| Dyr Nasad | Jun 10 2010, 08:43:54 AM Post #85 |
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Slave to the Hive Mind
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If an admin messes up (doing admin-ly things), Loop deals with it (or Pack, if he gets root) - govt and admin should stay as seperate as possible - if an admin breaks a regional law, than a trial is needed, just as if s/he was any other citizen |
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| Reziel | Jun 10 2010, 09:46:47 AM Post #86 |
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Eternal Delegate
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Ditto. IMO, "admin thingies" do not seem so much related to the "region": indeed, i honestly do not see an admin as someone who's necessarily deeply connected with poilitics and so on: basically, i see him/her just as a "mechanic" taking care the forum/car works properly. Moreover, I think that a bit of behind-the-scenes ass-kicking would be far more effective... and it wouldn't give outside the impression the forum is deeply thorn by internal quarrels. In a word... the super/root admin should be vigilant and ready to reproach an abusing "lower" admin. Or even to strip him/her of the powers, when the circumstance arise. The whole thing with as few publicity as possible.
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 10 2010, 12:07:45 PM Post #87 |
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Planet Telox
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I can see both scenarios working out. However, I'd like to make a distinction between when I believe it becomes the conclave's business and when it becomes solely the admin team's business. If the offending admin has made problems that affect only the admin team, it is their business and their business only. When it affects the forums and the people residing in it, however, it then becomes a problem of the people within it and should be carried by the conclave. Case in point: when the conclave tried Kurdz in January, Kurdz had no proper position in the government - those within the conclave felt he was causing enough trouble to merit a trial, and it was carried out. While the flow of that trial and what happened in it is a separate matter altogether, I pretty much think it should be handled by the conclave if there is a problem that directly affects members. BUT, it should not be the conclave's job alone - the admin team should make a decision too. Let me just throw out a hypothetical here: say there's an admin that for one reason or another deletes a pretty important post. Now, I'm not saying this is something we should be worrying about (I really hope we're not thinking an admin, old or new, would do this!), but, for the sake of an example, let's say it happens. The admin team might make a decision to suspend his or her privileges immediately, or as soon as they reach a decision. It is then moved to the conclave, and an admin or group of admins present the story in an unbiased manner. From there, the conclave determines whether or not a harsher punishment should be made, or if in fact he or she should be re-instated (like, for example, it was an accident and the admin didn't know they did it and are really sorry about it, let's just say). That'd basically be my example for that. And in all actuality, if we're on our toes about things, this should only take a few weeks, more or less. Immediate action by the admin team, then a conclave investigation / trial to see what happened and make a proper judgment on things! A fluid process!! ![]() NOW, if for some reason a citizen or group of citizens feel that an admin is blatantly doing things he or she shouldn't be doing, the conclave should be notified, and the admin team should be notified. Before any trial begins, the admin team should be responsible for coming up with a quick explanation as to why he or she was doing whatever, and whether or not they support them on what they did. The conclave investigates / maybe has a trial, and they figure out where to go from there. If there is a difference in opinion, however, that's where it gets hairy. Like let's say the admin team says they were in the clear, but the conclave for whatever reason says no, they in fact weren't. Which one should win out? What should the verdict be? This is where we make a full circle with what I wrote earlier in this post. If it affected the admin team more, their ruling wins out. If the citizens are most affected, the conclave's rulings win out. Now, again, the conclave will have to work on establishing how it goes about with trials / investigations / rulings and the like, so this post is as of now incomplete. Furthermore, we'd have to be able to see whether or not it affects the admin team more or the citizens more. However, I do believe that we should make it a compromise between the conclave and the admin team, and have both factions working together to ameliorate the problem. What does everyone else think? |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kurogasa | Jun 10 2010, 01:21:45 PM Post #88 |
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Viceroy
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I agree that the administration of the forums and the government should be kept as two different things, and I have to say that Todd makes a lot of sense with his last post.
this part though, I can't agree with...what's the point of making a trial if the admins can just say "yeah, we don't agree with that" and end things there?... maybe there should be implemented a warning system for admins, and if you get to the limit the conclave can dismiss that admin. Just an idea. |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Todd McCloud | Jun 10 2010, 02:17:18 PM Post #89 |
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Planet Telox
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You may be right, that could lead to "I'm right! No, I'm right! No, we're right!" stuff. In light of that, I suppose it would still be the duty of the conclave to make their final say, if only because they're the judges of the region and, if the admin team presents a good case as to why nothing bad should happen to them, things should be fine. I really doubt this would turn into an issue, where the conclave is completely one way and the admin team is the other way, but yeah. *shrugs* The warning idea is a very interesting one as well. Would you be willing to expand on it? Excellent point though, Kuro! I'm personally glad we're all debating this and stuff, because then it becomes a *region* thing, and not a decision made by a select few, lol. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Free Pacific States | Jun 10 2010, 03:05:29 PM Post #90 |
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Number One Drone
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Frankly, I cannot disagree more. By granting the Conclave authority over the administration, we are giving the government authority over the administration, and I just don't feel that proper. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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7:29 PM Jul 10