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Topic Started: Aug 17 2010, 09:54:36 PM (2,928 Views)
Der Fuhrer Dyszel
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Cool like Snakes

Topid stick to TEP. Has Unibot ever changed the opinion of a TEP vote? The day you show me exactly where he has....I might potentially think about possibily considering your terribly misinformed and idiotic argument.

Until then, I am sticking to my stand down and shut up suggestion. You would do yourself a huge favor by doing that. Because right now, you are only succeeding in making yourself look like a terrible fool. :P

It seems to me not only do you know nothing about delegacy, evidently you know absolutely nothing about the region you are attempting to change the laws in. :lol:

TEP is brutal on its own regional members....we have a tendency to keep our delegates thoroughly in check. And when I say thoroughly, I mean thoroughly. What I am hearing is that you have no idea what goes on in TEP because no self respecting member of this region would ever suggest what you are suggesting now.

We do a damn good job keeping people in line. Ask any one of us how we know and I am sure someone will give you at least three instances where another regional member ripped them a new one for screwing up. Oh yeah, we have no problems telling other members when they screw up. Most are smart and get the hint....then it seems like others like you don't want to listen to sound advice.

Learn TEP. Learn delegacy. Learn feeder politics.

You might then know something enough to actually make a good argument.

:P



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East Malaysia
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
I think your points are valid for a UCR. But a feeder? More specifically: The East Pacific? Not so much, as DFD pointed out we can be brutal.

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I can see that being something a delegate might hesitate to vote for in a timely manor even if the decision to vote for it was unanimous by everyone but him. Or a commendation of a long term enemy/rival. A repeal of a resolution our delegate wrote or co-authored campaigned for or even just strongly supported.


Honestly most feeder delegates don't care. Democratic = they don't want to meet the wrath of the people. Less democratic = they do what they want anyways.

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That's what we do now, that's what you are saying every single delegate would do anyway, so what is wrong with requiring it? Is a rule that we will apparently never break really such a harmful rule?


Re: Regulation where no regulation is required

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But if we did get a delegate in office that bends rules and does things to advance himself then we should have rules in place to prevent him from doing so.


They would not be delegate for very long...not very long at all.
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:EM:
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Der Fuhrer Dyszel
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EM is most certainly right. I think I am most disturbed by this idea because of the insinuations that our delegates cannot be trusted.

A delegate who errs that badly will not stay delegate long. Not in TEP. Certainly not in TEP. Not in a region where you have well over a dozen people at any given time of the day who can seize delegacy and boot that idiot.

With that said, it also goes back to assuming that every delegate cares about the WA as much as you do Topid. Let us be honest, most do not. They vote because they must vote, but few have this deep burning desire to do WA affairs. And because most do not care, like EM said, they are not going to listen to outsiders. And again as EM pointed out, those that are going to do their own thing will not be deterred by others.

Secondly, do you not have an ounce of faith in anyone in this region. I hate to tell you, most people here are ten times more intelligent then you are giving them credit for. You do realize we have people with their Ph.D's in TEP. I think by that merit, it is a crapshot to say our region is composed of a bunch of kids who can easily be deterred and deceived. I am not going to insult your intelligence necessarily, but do you know what goes into defending your thesis? Yeah....you cannot be deterred by tons of people who are going to find fault in EVERYTHING you say. Do you really believe those people can be persuaded by some overzealous WA fanatic?

Food for thought. Think about the people around you and who they are and why TEP will not allow some terrible delegate. You have more than enough extremely competent players here ready to seize the reigns if someone fucks up. Again, ask some of us how we know, we'll tell you tons of times where we saw this happen.

:P

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MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY

You can't ignore my girth.


Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe"

:lol:


;)

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Nalt
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
I am not implying that everyone or all of our delegates should be interested in the WA. I am saying that since some of us are VERY interested, we should protect those interests. For me, cheating the WA vote is just as bad as (and I'd probably care more about it than) cheating in an election. WA Votes mean more to me than votes on who will lead the region at the moment. I'm not saying everyone should think that, I'm saying if we truly want to be an inclusive region, we should protect the aspects of the game that each person is interested in, not just the majority.

We, as TEP, are supposed to be (From everything I've heard about this region from members and non-members) inclusive to people from every community. That is what made this region so appealing to me. But my 'problem' is that I still am not a 'TEPer' because I think like someone who stays on the NS forums. I do think like that. And that's why I'm here because this region was supposed to be inclusive.

Perhaps I was nuts to think I'd find a region that wasn't dominated by the same mentality of conforming to what everyone else thinks is important here so that I am accepted (and in most cases so that ones long term goal to be leader will be more likely). That's not how I roll, I'm not concerned with my political future, and I certainly am not here to ever have a leadership role. I'm here to help a community that accepts not only my view, not only a roleplayer's views and concerns, not only a regional politician's views and concenrs, not only OMD's raider views and concerns, but all of those (and any other game-play style I'm leaving out) by being an active member.

That's not to say I won't eventually end up thinking similar to you. I started this game as a hardcore regional politician that had barely heard of role-play, never met a roleplayer, and never took the time to look at anything but my region's ns page and forum. I heard about the WA community from someone I met in that region, and after hearing him talk about that aspect of the game I eventually tried it out and liked it. I might develop the interests you want me to have over time and on my own, if that happens so be it and everyone is happy. But I'm not just going to convert suddenly to it because I'm told that is what would make me more well-liked around here.

Feel free to respond, I might miss it for a few days, I'll make another thread to explain my absence to the rest of the Magisterium but I'll try to remember to read and reply when I do get back. And this post might have a hint of frustration slipping through, it's been a long day.
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Barb
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Sergeant Hobo 678
If it isn't broken, don't fix it. I advise against attempting to create a rule to prevent a hypothetical problem that hasn't occurred.

Concordat grants Delegate, Provost, Viceroy, and Viziers powers and discretion within their own spheres of authority that are important to respond flexibly in the best interest of the region. Of course that also allows leaders to screw around. Which is why we try to elect folks with a track record of being trustworthy. If we elect chimpanzees, expect poop throwing.

Someone is always attempting to disrupt large regions and "use" the weight they can throw around in WA. It's an NS sport. No one should be surprised by that. There's no way to write a rule that will anticipate all the nonsense I've seen troublemakers try to pull since I joined NS. Sometimes detailed rules themselves give them troublemakers bright ideas.

Active leadership, a kickass forum admin team, and active citizens are our first and best line of defense against rule breakers, excessively annoying behavior, and disruptive players.
Barb
Arbiter Barbara Manatee
Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific
Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier

Keep TEP beautiful!

The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Todd McCloud
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I'm not saying everyone should think that, I'm saying if we truly want to be an inclusive region, we should protect the aspects of the game that each person is interested in, not just the majority.

How are we currently not protecting these interests? We've had delegates who upheld the will of the people with the WA vote for 1.5 years now (EDIT: we also had it back even further with Gnidrah and Loop as dels). As far as I know, we debate the vote in the WA forum, and the delegate casts the vote. Sounds good to me.

Quote:
 
Perhaps I was nuts to think I'd find a region that wasn't dominated by the same mentality of conforming to what everyone else thinks is important here so that I am accepted (and in most cases so that ones long term goal to be leader will be more likely). That's not how I roll, I'm not concerned with my political future, and I certainly am not here to ever have a leadership role. I'm here to help a community that accepts not only my view, not only a roleplayer's views and concerns, not only a regional politician's views and concenrs, not only OMD's raider views and concerns, but all of those (and any other game-play style I'm leaving out) by being an active member.

Again, I can tell you after getting a bunch of TG's from people in the region, people here do care about the WA. But many here don't see a need to change a system that's been going alright for some time now. In response to your talks about acceptance, well, coming into the region and pushing for changes will cause friction, no matter how you slice it. You don't need to fight for resolutions in the WA system here to impact it. You could help get people in the region involved in our WA voting, tell people what the vote is so far and what's up to vote, talk about the vote on the RMB, etc. I'm not saying you have to do those things. But there are ways to positively impact the WA here, and they would probably be more welcomed than a bill that tells us to change our system here.

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I might develop the interests you want me to have over time and on my own, if that happens so be it and everyone is happy. But I'm not just going to convert suddenly to it because I'm told that is what would make me more well-liked around here.

You're entitled to your opinions and beliefs. So are the others in TEP. And, as you've seen, TEP sometimes doesn't hold back on those things ;)
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
I'm going to stay out of this debate for the most part but let me know that we've had a Delegate that respected the will of the people with regards to the WA (and, prior to that, the UN) for well over 1.5 years. Gnidrah made his UN/WA decisions based on a public vote and Loop did the same, though there was only the UN during his term.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Todd McCloud
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Free Pacific States
Sep 7 2010, 09:00 PM
I'm going to stay out of this debate for the most part but let me know that we've had a Delegate that respected the will of the people with regards to the WA (and, prior to that, the UN) for well over 1.5 years. Gnidrah made his UN/WA decisions based on a public vote and Loop did the same, though there was only the UN during his term.

Thank you for clarifying that, FPS :)

I was kind of thinking about the gap with Phedre, but I should've included Gnid and Loop too with regards to the WA vote parallel to the will of the people. *smacks his head* That's pretty important! I'll edit my post to reflect that.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
No worries. Just couldn't resist a chance to harken back to the good ol' days, when a citizen with 150 endorsements wasn't considered a threat!
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Barb
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Sergeant Hobo 678
All Magisters are invited to Conclave to discuss what your Standing Orders mean by majority vote in this thread.
Barb
Arbiter Barbara Manatee
Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific
Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier

Keep TEP beautiful!

The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
Quote:
 
Todd McCloud: don't feed the trolls
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Vulshain: you don't want the disco-roller skating bots to come
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Kurogasa: honest to Quetzalcoatl
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Barb
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Sergeant Hobo 678
*Nudges Magisterium*

The approval of Arbiter nominees Drakk and DFD have now languished for 5 days without any action. I have yet to see any objections to either, just silence.

It's not your fault Smig's nomination fell through, but it remains a fact that TAO's Arbiter resignation has yet to be filled. The current matter before Conclave is pretty serious business and it would be in the best interest of the region if we had more Arbiters.

Pretty please?
Barb
Arbiter Barbara Manatee
Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific
Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier

Keep TEP beautiful!

The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
Quote:
 
Todd McCloud: don't feed the trolls
Quote:
 
Vulshain: you don't want the disco-roller skating bots to come
Quote:
 
Kurogasa: honest to Quetzalcoatl
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Romania and Moldova
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Assimilated!
Hi friends, I opened a discussion to change the rule to the limit of endorsements, please visit Magisterium thank you.
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