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| Trial for Voter Fraud: Krayt III & Lord Zannah; ARBITERS & ADMIN ONLY | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 20 2010, 12:19:34 PM (1,061 Views) | |
| Barb | Sep 20 2010, 12:19:34 PM Post #1 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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The matter before Conclave is that TEP citizen Packlivania has stated that nations Krayt III and Lord Zannah have committed an offense that merits a trial for treason. Proceedings here are to be conducted in accordance with the Standing Orders of Conclave. Order of the Proceeding 1. Consideration of Merit begins Tuesday, September 21, 2010. The Conclave will have no more than one week to determine if a trial is needed by active Arbiter majority vote, and the acceptance of any advocates and witnesses proposed.
3. The sub-heading of this thread shall indicate who may post in the thread at any time. Viceroy reserves the right to refer disruptions to Forum Administrators. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| packilvania | Sep 20 2010, 02:49:26 PM Post #2 |
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Caliph
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The above evidence shows that the two accounts have the same IP, and have originated from the same computer. Seeing as one of the accounts shows a single post, which was to nominate the other account for delegate, they are in fact the same person. This is a subversion of the democracy of TEP, and an insult to our intelligence. |
![]() "The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate." Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned. DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry. Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose. | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Sep 20 2010, 10:00:31 PM Post #3 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Note: I went ahead and removed the evidence of the IP check. We trust that an admin verifying IP addresses as the same is sufficient enough proof. Despite the claims, I think we should still respect TEP'ers right to privacy. Treason or not, we need to respect our players privacy. ![]() |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| packilvania | Sep 21 2010, 06:30:59 AM Post #4 |
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Caliph
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I will Send evidence to any conclave member that requests it. |
![]() "The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate." Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned. DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry. Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose. | |
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| Barb | Sep 21 2010, 08:39:33 AM Post #5 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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I will add to the record for consideration of my fellow Arbiters that in the Citizenship and Election threads Viceroy can document:
The details and time frames will be made exact if there is a trial. I believe there is sufficient evidence for a reasonable person to consider both nations were created by one person and they acted in a manner that suggests the sole purpose of election fraud. They did nothing else in or for the region AFAIK. My fellow Arbiters? What say ye? |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| Todd McCloud | Sep 21 2010, 01:09:45 PM Post #6 |
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Planet Telox
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I saw the direct evidence, and have read the additional information presented by Barb. This, in my opinion, merits a trial. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kurogasa | Sep 21 2010, 03:26:11 PM Post #7 |
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Viceroy
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I have to admit that I was aware of this facts before the trial, but one of my concerns is this...can we really judge what he did as treason?, what's the definition of "treason" in TEP? I can think of some things that would fit better with what he did;
That being said, I have mixed feelings about performing a trial when the accused is absent... how can we have a fair and impartial trial if there's only one side in it?...how can we stop it from turning into a witch hunt?... and what?, after the trial we are just going to inform him the results via telegram? I guess you guys will say that we can inform him of the charges against him, but how can we know he's even coming back?, he\she\it is long gone... Guys, I know this post might come out wrong, but everything I'm saying is with TEP and it's members in mind, because...if we do this now, how do we stop it from taking precedence as a procedure in TEP?, performing trials with an absent accused who could be any member, not just a random guy that tried to fool us. |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Todd McCloud | Sep 21 2010, 04:07:49 PM Post #8 |
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Planet Telox
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Kuro raises a good point. We need to make certain this guy's accusation is accurate. Treason, as far as Oxford Dictionary says, is "the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government". We... really don't have proof that this guy was attempting to overthrow the government or betray the region, as far as I can see. He wasn't trying to coup or overthrow anything (again, as far as I can tell), just run in the elections and he/she nom'd himself illegally. This seems to me a case of voter fraud. We currently have it set up so that if people want to provide a defense, they can freely within the flow of the trial. Yeah, this guy seems like he's/she's moved on to a different region, but that shouldn't prevent a trial. The best we can do is inform him or her that a trial is going on, and then move on. We've got to at least give him/her a chance and, by the way in which the law is written up, he/she has the ability to defend himself/herself within the given time. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Barb | Sep 21 2010, 05:46:28 PM Post #9 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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Both Krayt III and Lord Zannah have forum accounts. Because they are not nations resident in the region, I will give them both a PM and TG invitation 24 hours prior to the start of trial. This being a trial, the evidence must first be presented - for which I will allot 48 hours, then the accused allowed a defense, which is 72 hours per SOC. That gives them 6 days to respond. If they don't respond with a defense, SOC states it is waived. Attempting to take the Delegacy of a founderless region by fraud is the very definition of attempted government overthrow. I am not hung up on the word "treason" here. I am concerned about preserving the Delegacy in a democratic process. Conclave may change the charge to whatever we deem fit or dismiss it upon hearing the evidence. The fact that we prevented them from being successful does not diminish the seriousness of the act. The history of NationStates feeder region politics has many records that read "Then Delegate X took the region and tore up the constitution." Conclave's job is to protect the Concordat. I hope I have satisfied your concerns. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| Kurogasa | Sep 21 2010, 08:35:19 PM Post #10 |
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Viceroy
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I'll be honest here... I still believe the trial in absence is something that should be avoided...but after some consideration I see there's no other choice...only thing I ask is that you send him/her a mail too. And I agree with Todd that this falls under "voter fraud" instead of "treason", he couldn't have overthrown the delegacy just by being nominated, he still had to win the elections by getting more votes than the rest of the candidates... |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Barb | Sep 22 2010, 01:29:24 PM Post #11 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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Viceroy requests a Motion to accept the evidence as sufficient to merit a trial for Voter Fraud. If the motion is approved, the two nations will be sent each a PM and TG and given up to 6 days to present or waive their defense. The reason to have a trial is to not judge them without fair consideration. It is less fair to not grant them the right to refuse to incriminate themselves - they may remain silent. They may also question the evidence and defend themselves convincingly. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| Todd McCloud | Sep 23 2010, 01:28:45 AM Post #12 |
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Planet Telox
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Motion seconded (if needed in this case). Regardless, I believe we can move toward a trial. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Barb | Sep 23 2010, 12:27:44 PM Post #13 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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The matter before Conclave is if the evidence presented by Packilvania and Barbara Manatee merits a trial for voter fraud. This isn't the trial, this is to authorize a trial be held per our SOC. Barb votes AYE. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| Todd McCloud | Sep 23 2010, 12:31:10 PM Post #14 |
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Planet Telox
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Todd votes AYE |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kurogasa | Sep 23 2010, 08:21:30 PM Post #15 |
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Viceroy
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Kurogasa votes AYE. |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Barb | Sep 24 2010, 05:46:41 PM Post #16 |
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Sergeant Hobo 678
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The Ayes have it. Trial for Voter Fraud will be set for next week. I'll lock this thread and start a new one and pin it when I get my act together. |
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Barb Arbiter Barbara Manatee Ulthar Ambassador to The East Pacific Convicted Thief of the Crown of the Vizier Keep TEP beautiful! The practice of peace and reconciliation is one of the most vital and artistic of human actions. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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2:10 PM Jul 11