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| Term Limits Discussion; The Sequel | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 20 2010, 03:18:13 PM (1,647 Views) | |
| Nalt | Nov 20 2010, 03:18:13 PM Post #1 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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We discussed placing a term limit on the delegate last term. The topic was never addressed with a vote. I'd really like to have a vote on the issue this term as I said in the election. Which means I'd like to start the discussion about it now. My preference on the term limit issue is to ban consecutive terms, but not limit total terms. The reason I'd like to see no limit on total terms is so that a successful former delegate could step up and take the job again in a time of great need, should one ever arise. I think, as someone who existed completely outside of the feeders for a long time, that to many players the delegate IS the region, as was mentioned in the last thread. As an example, until DFD's delegacy, Todd had been delegate for well over a year, and I barely remembered the delegate that preceded him. After that, until the point when I joined this forum, Todd was TEP. When TEP was mentioned I thought of Todd first. Krul is TP, and Fudge is very much still TSP for me. (I'm not saying anything about any of those players personally btw.) And that is one of the big reasons that I think discouraged me from joining a feeder. It just sounded cliquish. Not to mention, having a new delegate every six months encourages constant change, which I think is positive. Basically, there are three things for the Magisterium to decide: 1) Whether or not to have a limit at all. 2) If yes above, whether it should be a limit on consecutive terms or total terms or some combination of those two, 3) How many terms that limit should be set at. EDIT: Here is the text so far...
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| East Malaysia | Nov 20 2010, 03:28:31 PM Post #2 |
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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I think it would be reasonable to have a term limit on three consecutive terms. I think it is okay to have two terms then have a switch up but that delegate would still have the option to run again. |
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Question with Boldness >Sovereign Empire of East Malaysia [url]East Malaysia @ NSWiki[/url] - WIP The Eastrovia Times wwt.et.em Embassy - Coming Soon Character List - Updating Soon >Forum Support ![]() >>>Forum Descriptions Rework<<< >>>Tapatalk Migration Information<<< #forum-help-center \ Mod/admin requests \ Board Rules \ Internet Safety & You \ ZB TOS & TOU Emergency Contact: east.malaysia@mail.theeastpacific.com (forwards directly to my personal email)
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| Deleted User | Nov 20 2010, 03:34:28 PM Post #3 |
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Deleted User
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I agree with your sentiments. I struggle with perceived cliques within the feeders (especially the trans-feeder politicians). The constant changing of the guard helps relieve this perception (or misconception). I've noticed a pattern in the Magisterium rolls where at times there are very few Magisters. The East Pacific, with consecutive limits, could find itself in a position where there are not enough active members to fill the Magisterium. Perhaps a limit of two consecutive terms as Magister with no more than two terms in a twelve month period? |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 03:36:44 PM Post #4 |
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Number One Drone
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Honestly, I'm not a big fan of term limits in general, but I particularly oppose any term limits for the Magisterium. Its already difficult to find Magisters; we rarely have assembles in the double digits. And even when we do get a well-sized Magisterium, like right now, there are generally few experienced Magisters. Let's not deter Magisterial participation and let's definitely not deter people from becoming Magisterial regulars. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Allegheny | Nov 20 2010, 03:48:32 PM Post #5 |
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Partly Cloudy
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If I may interject, FPS I hope you aren't implying that experience is a big factor in anything relating to TEP's government. I hope you won't allow the perception of experience to neuter the effectiveness of members who have not been in the Magisterium. This isn't an old boy's club, don't allow this experience thing make new magisters feel like their opinion and their ability to make changes aren't worth something. Seniority and such should mean nothing here. |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 04:20:21 PM Post #6 |
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Number One Drone
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I did not state that newer members are ineffective nor did I state that more experienced members are automatically superior. I did not imply either of these statements, either, and I really am sick of the endless, baseless allegations that I am biased against new members. I am not. But I do feel that experience should not be ignored. Experience is a highly helpful tool, especially to a lawmaker, but also to any person. Does it automatically make a person better? No. Donald Rumsfeld was extremely experienced in defense affairs -- he still sucked at his job. And Obama was extremely inexperienced in political affairs -- he still pwned the 2008 elections. But if used correctly, experience can count for a lot, and so while people ought not assume that experience means competence, people ought also not assume that experience means nothing (or, as seems to be the case in the eyes of some in this region, incompetence and arrogance). But regardless of the importance of experience or your views towards it, I feel that term limits are unnecessary. This is a democracy. If a person has held office too long, the people will know, and they will remove that individual. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Nalt | Nov 20 2010, 04:59:34 PM Post #7 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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I don't see why we would put term limits on magisters... There aren't a fixed number of seats. It doesn't matter if (using FPS as example) FPS was elected 10 terms straight, it would still be just as easy for a new nation to get elected, since FPS' results have no effect on the new nation's. Plus it seems totally at odds with the 'Dean' position we've set up. But I do think term limits for a delegate are good. |
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 06:37:52 PM Post #8 |
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Planet Telox
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For the magisterium, I'm against having a cap on term limits there. But I am against having an old boy network here too. So there is a conundrum. And while I'd like to say people could look at the Magister elections and not vote people in who would make things difficult here, the very fact that A Mean Old Man was nearly voted in despite not making a platform or answering the tough questions put forth by voters is disappointing. I'm not bitter, but considering we've only had three provosts in eight terms is a little discouraging. The very least we could do is switch that up. Also, as with the past discussions on delegate terms, I am for limiting consecutive terms in general. Six months is just enough time for someone to get their agenda (or lack of an agenda) completed. As someone who was delegate for two consecutive terms here, I should say six months is a good time frame to get what you want to get done completed - heck, consecutive terms can sometimes put a strain on the delegate and region to keep things unique, exciting, and different. Plus, we should be dynamic. We're The East Pacific, practically the only feeder region left that is active and stable. I like this dynamic image we have. Furthermore, I have noticed incumbents tend to have an advantage in elections. Why? Well, if they did well, they're a safe choice. Plus why change a good thing? And it's not like we're limiting those who want to run again. If they want to run the next next term, there's nothing stopping them. Here's what I propose: 1. Delegate terms cannot be consecutive 2. Provost term cannot be more than two consecutive terms. Short and simple. Pretty easy to go by, and it keeps things different here. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Nalt | Nov 20 2010, 06:41:56 PM Post #9 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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Hmmm, I hadn't considered Provost limits... Do you mean two terms ever, or two consecutive terms? |
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 06:42:49 PM Post #10 |
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Planet Telox
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Yeah, I was only talking about consecutive terms, lol. Thank you for pointing that out. Amended. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Nov 20 2010, 07:22:19 PM Post #11 |
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Cool like Snakes
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You all should know by now my thoughts on term limits. I am a major advocate for limiting terms. With that said, I would like to violate my code of conduct for a moment and share a concern with this Magisterium. The other night I was in private discussion with an East Pacific member who out of respect I shall leave anonymous. It seemed to me the conversation was leading to the idea that there is a divide between TEP members and those of us who come from outside of the region. I was very deterred as a member here. I want little to do with your pretend governments any more. And unfortunately those negative feelings are spilling here now. I hear people talking about experienced Magisters and coupled with the privately discussed statement that I do not know The East Pacific, I cannot but think that there is an Old Guard mentality in TEP and those members are making it incredibly difficult for new members or outside members to feel welcomed and part of this community. Prior to the hard work that some of us spilled into this region when your "old guard" bailed on you, you had a weak and ineffective government that allowed for a regional takeover. If I recall, none of you were around to rebuild the region after its utter collapse. Now, those of us who had no reason to stick around did, and we helped rebuild TEP into the most active and respected feeder in NS.....a far jump from what your former TEP became over its years of apathy. Yet little respect is paid to us and the hard work we poured into rebuilding a better TEP....a new TEP. Some old members tend to vote for well, the old members. It is deterring when I see regional members who only vote yes to members who existed in TEP since practically the start of the region. If it is deterring to me, what should be perceived as an established member here, what is that saying to our new members and outsiders? And then I stumble across these arguments and it again deters me from having hope here. You guys will stifle and crush this region again if you cannot accept the notion that the old TEP is well dead. It has been replaced with a new mentality and a new focus. Yes, we may have kept many government processes the same, kept many key focal points the same, but we are not the same region and I wish that some of you would begin to accept this. Maybe I am wrong and nothing has changed....that TEP is the same apathetic wasteland shell of a region it was.....but I tried my best to put forth my best effort into rebuilding the region into something I wished to see. I did not sit by on the bleachers and cheer or jeer or criticize the team of people doing the hardwork...I jumped into the game and put myself on the lines to be slammed. I might lose, but I can say I actually attempted to change TEP instead of saying "well that's just TEP" and letting the region once again fall into vulnerability and ruin. So again, forgive me for sounding jaded, but I am so tired of this mentality. The talk of experience in any capacity in this argument has me frustrated. I just want to say "well let's see, our 'experienced' Magisters did little to revive the Magisterium last term. Why should I put faith in the experienced Magisters?" Experience is helpful when it is coupled with dedication. Experience without focus and dedication is useless....it becomes a noose to a region. Inexperience is also dangerous but inexperience coupled with dedication and focus allows for learning and a progressive step forward for our region. See a trend? Yes, it is dedication and focus that is more important. ![]() Let's face it, if you cannot put the effort into building a better TEP, you will never have a better TEP. It does not spontaneously generate. TEP's success can be attributed to members who put a lot of time, focus, dedication into rebuilding TEP. As an outsider, TEP was most well known to me around the year 2005, give or take a year window. And you know why I know TEP and others knew TEP so well? We knew it from the members who were outsiders....not from the internal members. It was the members who were part of TEP and also part of the wider game that made TEP into a well respected region. Now for a long time you lost that and TEP became an open target. Again now you bring in wider game play NS'ers into the picture and TEP is once again a pinnacle attainment for feeders.....hmm....coincidence? What is the saying? Seldom a coincidence in NS? So when you tell me that because I'm an outside and not a TEP'er that I don't understand this region....well you know I just want to point out that sometimes being an outsider gives you a wider spectrum of to what actually works in game than what you think might work. We have the experience of seeing failed systems to know what does and does not work in the long term. We do not have to make that failure to know its a bad idea. So onto term limits, good idea. Bad idea for feeders to allow a single member to become synonymous with a position when you want to push your region to be open and accepting to new members. Take it or leave it....but again, I have the 'experience' of watching many regions fail because they didn't think there was any drawback to allowing open terms. So I might not be a TEP'er to you guys, but I'll be damned if I let that stop me from trying to build this region into something better. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Kangarawa | Nov 20 2010, 07:25:28 PM Post #12 |
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Maker of Coffee
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OK. I am confused, not all that abnormal for me. How did the Magisterium come into Topid's proposal except by extension? If I'm not mistaken, what we're to be discussing is term limits for the delegate, no? |
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| Kangarawa | Nov 20 2010, 07:30:43 PM Post #13 |
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Maker of Coffee
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Apologies for the double post but I was responding as DFD did. I'm extraordinarily tired of hearing about this perception of an "old guard". I suppose I'd be considered part of it seeing as I was around in 2006-2007. Bunk. The region has changed completely. The old guard I see now is comprised of nations such as DFD and Todd. Experience, whether here or in a UFR, is not a bad thing but nor is it the be-all and end-all. |
![]() ![]() If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. | |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 07:42:36 PM Post #14 |
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Number One Drone
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While I certainly understand the logic behind term limits, I still do not believe term limits to be necessary in the East Pacific, and I further feel that term limits are a general restriction upon the choice of the general public. First off, the East Pacific populace is absolutely capable of making responsible choices in elections, and proves that ability every few months. The populace pays close attention during delegate elections, I think everyone can agree, and maintains a damn good track record of picking delegates. The populace is a bit less attentive in Magisterium elections, admittedly, but they were attentive enough to just barely not vote in A Mean Old Man. And the members of the Magisterium certainly pay close enough attention -- every Magister participated in this past race. The East Pacific citizenry are capable of making their own choices -- there is no need for us to limit them. Secondly, incumbency advantage is not that great in the East Pacific. In real life, incumbents get two main advantages: cash and name recognition. The East Pacific is small enough that name recognition means nothing and money plays no part in East Pacific politics. So, the real life reasons to prevent incumbent advantage are not really present. As to the argument that incumbents gain an advantage if the reason remains stable, well, that seems fair -- that means they've done their job. Shouldn't they be rewarded? The eligible voters of the East Pacific are smart enough to know if an incumbent needs to know and I see no reason to limit their ability to re-elect a successful public servant. Third, to take an old proverb, why fix what isn't broken? We've only had one Delegate be re-elected. We've had no Provost serve for more than three terms, consecutive or otherwise -- that's just one more term than the limit being proposed. And we've got no current Magister with more than three terms of experience and none with three consecutive terms of experience. So, frankly speaking, there isn't a need for term limits, because people don't tend to seek re-election too many times. When it comes down to it, while term limits aren't a horrible idea in general, they're unnecessary here in the East Pacific, and I see no reason to place unnecessary restrictions upon the voting rights of the East Pacific populace. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Nalt | Nov 20 2010, 07:48:43 PM Post #15 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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Whoa DFD! I don't really know how to respond to most of that since I came to NS on December 25, 2008. (Zooming up on a two year birthday!) I missed the 'old' TEP. @Kang: Yes, I only meant delegate terms, but I was vague in the topic title. But, if people want limits on the Provost too it'd be better to do that at the same time IMO. |
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 07:49:09 PM Post #16 |
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Planet Telox
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We were, but if people want to discuss term limits for Magisters, why limit the discussion? You know where I stand with all of that; I just outlined it. Personally, I agree with DFD's sentiments here. I am starting to see the formation of an old guard mentality. It seems to me there are two camps in the region: pre-Empire and post-Empire. For the most part, the two groups mix well. But there are times when it is clear those two groups are present. And when I see stuff like that, it raises flags with me. I do not want us to fall into the cracks of cliques. We're an open region that, since the creation of the concordat, has allowed three people with zero feeder delegate exerpience to run and be elected as delegate. That's the region I've come to know and love. The times when we just got out of the empire, we were all working together. Things were awesome. I came in and we all accepted one another and we all worked together to build the foundation for such a community. Doing delegate work was a pleasure because we all were wanting to keep getting better. We may not have agreed, but we were open to ideas. New people found haven here, were attracted to how exciting and fun things were here, and it was during that time we got a lot of our future office holders (Barb, All, just to name a few). Things continued through the past two years. We built a community, not based on the workings of the past, but on whoever wanted to be inside it. I don't want to see that go away. Two years ago we were building a community. It got better as we went along - no one's fault, it's just that you build a foundation first, then the first story, the second, and so on. New terms present new challenges and, hopefully, the challenges of the past term has already been solved. But today, we still are building. It is a work in progress, and always will be. We must never forget that. There is something to be said about longevity in a community. I'll give you that. But who has been working recently, who has been building the community recently? And that's not a strike against anyone. That's just the way it should be. We cannot shut ourselves out from new members, or we will fall into those traps that lead to our demise about 2.5 years ago. If there are new members who want to change things for the good, and they seem legit, let them. Heck, if they're new, let them get their hands dirty. New people keep things dynamic and change up a few things. The influx of outsiders we've enjoyed for about two years now is the reason why we are billed as an exciting and dynamic region. That's just how I am. I helped build this region, and I will continue to help build it. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 08:02:21 PM Post #17 |
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Number One Drone
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Frankly speaking, I cannot disagree more. An old guard mentality? Amongst who? Let's take a look at the pre-empire group that are still around these days. REZIEL -- Stays completely uninvolved in regional politics. KELSSEK -- He's a Vizier, yeah, but other than that, he stays out of regional politics. REALLY NICE HATS -- Just got nominated by Allegheny, "post-empire member," to be an Arbiter. S/he must be real involved in the old boys club. KANGARAWA -- Hasn't sought any office, except Magisterium, in ages. EAST MALYASIA -- Ran against FPS, another pre-empire member, in the Provost election. PACKILVANIA -- Stays out of regional politics by policy. FREE PACIFIC STATES -- Got re-elected Provost only with the support of Vulshain and BGP, both post-empire peeps. I'm sorry, but honestly, I see no new/old member separation. I certainly do not spend more time communicating with oldbies than newbies. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Allegheny | Nov 20 2010, 08:04:25 PM Post #18 |
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Partly Cloudy
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Please explain how you define old guard and how you see Todd and DFD as it. When i think old guard, I think people who don't like new members trying to change things and who ignore new ideas to things. So if that is your definition. please explain to me how Todd and DFD are that. If your definition of old guard is just people who have been here for a long time and have established themselves as a known entity with other members. Then please explain how you don't apply. |
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| Kangarawa | Nov 20 2010, 08:08:09 PM Post #19 |
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Maker of Coffee
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Again, I seem to be something here. Perhaps it's because I follow the forums and who is doing what and don't take part in many discussions outside the forums. Todd, I don't see how anyone can argue with you over this. I certainly won't. I do not see, however, how this applies to "term limits" and I truly don't understand all of the references to an "old guard". To me, the current "old guard" are those who brought the community back together following the advent of The Empire. I, for one, came back during the Empire's reign and was so disgusted that I left. As for term limits: I'd like to see a single term for the delegate with no restriction on total cumulative terms. Six months is a long time in NS, time enough for one learn and achieve what one hopes to. Using the same rationale, I'd like to see no more than two consecutive terms for Provost, although I don't have the same strength of feeling for this one. What I've seen since I "rejoined" in May are two elections for Magister where there were very few candidates. Last term's Magisters disappeared for the most part. If one wants to be consistent, we could consider two consecutive terms here as well but truthfully, with the Magisterium, I would hope that most people vote for those who are active. If someone wants to call that a "pretend" government, so be it, but I disagree. I have no problem with not listing a term limit for Magisters. |
![]() ![]() If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. | |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 08:10:04 PM Post #20 |
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Number One Drone
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I've got to agree. This conversation has nothing to do with term limits. So, let's get back to term limits, which I hold are an unnecessary restriction on voting rights in this region. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 08:10:45 PM Post #21 |
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Planet Telox
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I'm not trying to single you out here, but thinking that way does by default create some division. Her and I (and others) are not a front; we disagree about some things and still argue over things from time to time. That's healthy. I don't want an old guard to take form here. I know you don't want that, and I don't want it either. I'll fight it, because I've seen it and heard about it happening in other regions. We should avoid that. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Allegheny | Nov 20 2010, 08:11:40 PM Post #22 |
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Partly Cloudy
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I am not implying that ignoring new ideas is all old guardish, obivously bad ideas should be shot down. Excuse me for not phrasing it like such. "Completely ignoring." |
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| Kangarawa | Nov 20 2010, 08:13:31 PM Post #23 |
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Maker of Coffee
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My definition is those who have been here a long time. I was absent for close to two years, a lifetime in NS, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm a new member who is here for RP and fun. As I see it, the "old guard" are those who, as I said above, have rebuilt this community. That very obviously includes Todd and DFD. I don't use your definition of "old guard", Allegheny. |
![]() ![]() If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. | |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 08:14:52 PM Post #24 |
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Number One Drone
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ORDER. This debate has completely gone off topic. The matter at hand here is term limits not regional divisions. Let's get back on topic. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 08:19:19 PM Post #25 |
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Planet Telox
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Well, since the two topics are kind of separate, maybe they should be split apart? It might keep both topics on task. As far as the term limits, I'm still in agreement with the no consecutive terms for delegate, no more than two for provost. This is not because of anyone being problematic in the past, or any issues with any members here. It's just what I feel would keep things dynamic and would help to keep things exciting here. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Der Fuhrer Dyszel | Nov 20 2010, 08:24:15 PM Post #26 |
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Cool like Snakes
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Please request another admin to split the topic. I will not be placed in the position of doing such and having it falling back on my head. I apologize, normally I would just take this action, but I think you can all respect the position I am in. |
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Official Approval by Terasu MASTER OF PSYCHOSODOMY You can't ignore my girth. Terasu: "Well done DFD you imploded the universe" :lol: ![]()
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| Todd McCloud | Nov 20 2010, 08:27:16 PM Post #27 |
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Planet Telox
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Understand. I thought FPS had mod powers here with respect to the provost mask, but if not, I'll put a request in for the admin request thread for another admin to split it. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Free Pacific States | Nov 20 2010, 08:33:07 PM Post #28 |
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Number One Drone
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I do not have the power to split topics. But frankly, I don't see why DFD can't just relay the request to the rest of the administration. |
| The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization | |
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| Nalt | Nov 20 2010, 09:38:15 PM Post #29 |
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
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Okay, the topic of delegate term limits, looking at the total magisterium: East Malyasia: Supported limiting to three consecutive Free Pacific States: Opposes limits SCKnightVulshain: has not posted Topid: Supports a ban on consecutive terms British Grand Pacific: Did not state an opinion Kangarawa: Did not state an opinion Todd McCloud: Supports ban on consecutive terms (Is this correct?) If this is the case, in the spirit of compromise to leave the most magisters satisfied, it seems to me the best case scenario is a limit of two consecutive terms for the delegacy. (And I'd like to take the time to point out that I'm editing the actual text of the proposed amendment into the first post, but, I don't want to give the impression I want a vote soon, we still have a lot to discuss, and I'm not going to write in the magister and/or provost term limits until we discuss it more.) |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Nov 20 2010, 10:03:42 PM Post #30 |
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The Boll Weevel
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Actually, I do support a ban on consecutive terms for the delegency. However, I believe that this shouldn't prevent former delegetes from running again at later dates. |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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