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Ambassador's Mask Resolution
Topic Started: Nov 27 2010, 01:17:40 PM (1,360 Views)
Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Alright. So, EM, why don't you sum up the current dilemma regarding Ambassador's Masks, so that the Magisterium can discuss it? I can then draft up a resolution based on what we decide is best as a group.
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East Malaysia
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It all started with this.

The ambassador mask itself is on the administrative side for implementation, yes, but ambassadors themselves are on the government side.

As I volunteer time to the FA here in TEP I could create the criteria myself but I would like it to be not developed by myself.

What should be the criteria to get an ambassador mask? Should the group be called Ambassador or Foreign Dignitary? What would be a fitting color to accompany it?

Because not everyone fits into it and we have a honored guest mask for the purpose. And ambassadors that are citizens shouldn't have an ambassador mask since they would get the citizen mask.

Personally I just feel it is a murky subject even though it is true that I could just do it without anyones permission. But I feel that we, as a group. can formulate a answer to those three questions if not come up with other stuff to go along with it.

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Todd McCloud
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I personally would like to see one of the following:

- An "Ambassador" Mask (though Foreign Dignitary sounds good in its own right). Since we're running out of colors pretty fast (we already have white, black, orange, purple, blue, red, green (twice)...). So, I propose it be made yellow. In addition, a separate mask be made for ambassadors who are citizens. Something like "Naturalized Ambassadors" or something to that nature. Make this one either the same color (yellow) or a darker shade of yellow.

- The same as part one, but no "Naturalized Ambassador" Mask. Instead, simply group the citizen ambassadors in the citizen mask, using it as a blanket over them. Giving it a bit of thought over the holiday weekend, I feel this option may be more easier to maintain and follow.


What I don't agree with is having all ambassadors, regardless of citizenship, blanketed over one term. For me, citizen > ambassador as far as masks are concerned. That doesn't mean one group is better than the other; it simply means that I believe the citizenship designation should hold more weight. Plus it has the potential to make the job of the viceroy more difficult in addition to making citizen ambassadors feel a little left out... to a point.
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Why does it need a color? A trivial point, but if Citizen > Ambassador, then black is perfectly good for the mask.

Give the mask the same privileges as the citizen mask, with the exception of access to say Conclave and Magisterium, and drop it beneath Citizen in the usergroup hierarchy.

Should the ambassador want citizenship, then bump him to citizen.

No need for a big debate, imho.
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SCKnightVulshain
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Todd McCloud
Nov 28 2010, 11:17 PM
I personally would like to see one of the following:

- An "Ambassador" Mask (though Foreign Dignitary sounds good in its own right). Since we're running out of colors pretty fast (we already have white, black, orange, purple, blue, red, green (twice)...). So, I propose it be made yellow. In addition, a separate mask be made for ambassadors who are citizens. Something like "Naturalized Ambassadors" or something to that nature. Make this one either the same color (yellow) or a darker shade of yellow.

- The same as part one, but no "Naturalized Ambassador" Mask. Instead, simply group the citizen ambassadors in the citizen mask, using it as a blanket over them. Giving it a bit of thought over the holiday weekend, I feel this option may be more easier to maintain and follow.


What I don't agree with is having all ambassadors, regardless of citizenship, blanketed over one term. For me, citizen > ambassador as far as masks are concerned. That doesn't mean one group is better than the other; it simply means that I believe the citizenship designation should hold more weight. Plus it has the potential to make the job of the viceroy more difficult in addition to making citizen ambassadors feel a little left out... to a point.

I'm with Todd on this one. He makes a lot of good points. Having one group being more important than another goes against everything TEP stands for.
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Where are we at with this resolution? Sounds like we are close to a consensus in regards to an Ambassador mask one userlevel below citizen with naturalized ambassadors upgraded to the citizen mask.

I'd like to reiterate that I see no reason to give the ambassador mask any color besides the default black.
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Nalt
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
Why do we need to recognize a 'naturalized ambassador' as anything other than a citizen? (Or am I misunderstanding that term?)
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My understanding is a naturalized ambassador would become a citizen with the appropriate mask.
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
I've got to agree with Todd's proposal including the use of the color yellow. While BGP is right that it is unnecessary and that foreign dignitaries hold less privilege than citizens, we've got the color available, so why not make use of it? It'll make them foreign dignitaries stand out and feel special and, hey, everyone can use a bit of that.

And, with that in mind, I put forth the following resolution:

Quote:
 
WHEREAS numerous foreign dignitaries including ambassadors retain accounts on the East Pacific forums, and

WHEREAS these foreign dignitaries need greater access on the East Pacific forums than non-citizens but are not citizens, and

WHEREAS the forum administration of the East Pacific has requested the Magisterium provide advice on the treatment of ambassadors and other foreign dignitaries,

NOW THEREFORE, the Magisterium resolves as follows:

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration create a permission mask and user group for ambassadors and foreign dignitaries, called "Foreign Dignitaries," and grant holders of that permission mask access to all public areas of the East Pacific forum.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration set the color of this permission mask and user group as yellow.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration apply the citizen permission mask and user group to any individual that is both a citizen and a foreign dignitary, except if that citizen requests the application of the foreign dignitary permission mask.

RECOGNIZES that this resolution shall be known and cited as the Foreign Dignitaries Mask Resolution.
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Move to vote on the resolution as proposed by FPS in the above post.
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Todd McCloud
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Planet Telox
Free Pacific States
Dec 5 2010, 02:38 PM
RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration apply the citizen permission mask to any individual that is both a citizen and a foreign dignitary, except if that citizen requests the application of the foreign dignitary permission mask.

I don't really like the last bit. The viceroy would then have to check the foreign dignitary mask section with each voting period. This would make their job a little harder. I'd just let them remain citizens.
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
How so? I put that they merely be put as a citizen except if they request to be put as a foreign dignitary. That way, someone can go by their foreign title foremost if they want, but otherwise are just a citizen.
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Nalt
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DO NOT WANT!!!!!!
I have no idea how Barb makes the citizen list, but if he does use the citizen mask I can see how taking some from that group and putting them in the foreign mask would make it harder since he'd have to look in two places for citizens.

Again, I don't actually know if that is how the list is maintained though.
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Todd McCloud
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Topid
Dec 5 2010, 09:34 PM
I have no idea how Barb makes the citizen list, but if he does use the citizen mask I can see how taking some from that group and putting them in the foreign mask would make it harder since he'd have to look in two places for citizens.

Again, I don't actually know if that is how the list is maintained though.

Barb's a she XD. I will inform her via PM that her presence is wanted in this thread with regards to the citizenship explanation.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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If a foreign dignitary becomes a citizen, and gains the citizen mask, how would this make it more difficult to create a citizen list?
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
I still don't see the problem. Todd, you yourself proposed that naturalized foreign dignitaries be given the citizens mask. That provision just provides for that -- except if the person requests otherwise.
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Barb
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Please read "Citizenship FAQ" in Conclave. Concordat states Viceroy is responsible for naturalization and ratifying Concordat is the only path. Nations who are citizens that leave the region are expatriots and lose eligibility to serve in government. Per Magisterium law, citizens whose nations CTE have citizenship suspended. Viceroy Kandarin worked with Admin to develop a historical designation for nations who CTE'd a long time ago - to preserve their contributions to the region.

Masking Ambassadors is a fine idea. Creating two masks - one for citizens and one for non-citizens - seems overly complicated. If a nation is on the Citizenship List, they're a citizen. Expats are listed separately but don't have different masks.

As for granting forum permissions, Viceroy has no role: that's a security matter and Admin task. TEP government has a cordial relationship but separate authority. Granting the same permissions as citizens to Ambassadors by default diminishes citizenship. They have option to do what I did as Ulthar's Ambassador: ratify Concordat. That implies a social contract - rights are granted in return for taking on the responsibilities of conducting you affairs according to our law.
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Free Pacific States
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I'm sorry, but, I'm still not following. EM requested the Magisterium advise the forum administration about permission masks for foreign dignitaries; you suggested a separate mask colored yellow for foreign dignitaries with naturalized foreigners just given the citizens mask; that provision provides exactly for that except if a person specifically requests the foreign dignitary mask despite citizenship. What's the issue?
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Wait...are we talking about permission masks or user groups?
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Allegheny
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I am pretty sure masks and user groups are the same thing. the mask being what the user can do on the forums feature wise and the group being what the mask is part of.. like I have a delegate Mask you have a Provost mask, they are the same as citizen masks but with more abilities and responsibilities that came with them.

If you wanted th create a mask/group I would say just make it a limited version of the citizen mask IE can edit their own threads and posts but cant vote in polls and government elections...

This all coming from my limited self learned time as an admin of a UCR forum, i don't claim professional knowledge.
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Todd McCloud
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Free Pacific States
Dec 6 2010, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry, but, I'm still not following. EM requested the Magisterium advise the forum administration about permission masks for foreign dignitaries; you suggested a separate mask colored yellow for foreign dignitaries with naturalized foreigners just given the citizens mask; that provision provides exactly for that except if a person specifically requests the foreign dignitary mask despite citizenship. What's the issue?

The issue was whether or not foreign dignitaries that are citizens should be masked as citizens and therefore completely separate from non-citizen foreign dignitaries, simply for the sake of clarification. Since this does not seem to be the case, those who fall into the category of FD and citizens shouldn't have a problem with choosing.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Right...that's what I thought. Do I need to rephrase it, perhaps?
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The resolution as I understand it:

1. Ambassadors/Foreign Dignitaries will be given a usergroup/mask titled Foreign Dignitary and will be given access to all public areas.

2. Should an Ambassador/Foreign Dignitary want citizenship, they can ratify the Concordat and upgrade to the Citizen usergroup/mask unless they specifically choose not to.

Am I wrong? All the confusion is confusing me.
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
That's what I intended.
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
So, uh...any more thoughts on the proposal?
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Todd McCloud
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Planet Telox
Free Pacific States
Dec 5 2010, 02:38 PM
Quote:
 
WHEREAS numerous foreign dignitaries including ambassadors retain accounts on the East Pacific forums, and

WHEREAS these foreign dignitaries need greater access on the East Pacific forums than non-citizens but are not citizens, and

WHEREAS the forum administration of the East Pacific has requested the Magisterium provide advice on the treatment of ambassadors and other foreign dignitaries,

NOW THEREFORE, the Magisterium resolves as follows:

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration create a permission mask and user group for ambassadors and foreign dignitaries, called "Foreign Dignitaries," and grant holders of that permission mask access to all public areas of the East Pacific forum.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration set the color of this permission mask and user group as yellow.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration apply the citizen permission mask and user group to any individual that is both a citizen and a foreign dignitary, except if that citizen requests the application of the foreign dignitary permission mask.

RECOGNIZES that this resolution shall be known and cited as the Foreign Dignitaries Mask Resolution.

Other than it being a little WA-resolution-like (which is more of a preference of style and not a problem with the resolution), I don't see a problem with it. Nice job. Only things I'd recommend, which are small things, is removing "NOW" in the fourth point, and changing "access" to "permissions", like the ability to edit their posts, for instance. Again, small things.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Yeah, it is very WA like -- I used Kelssek's style, which is the same. How does this look?

Quote:
 
WHEREAS numerous foreign dignitaries including ambassadors retain accounts on the East Pacific forums, and

WHEREAS these foreign dignitaries need greater permissions on the East Pacific forums than non-citizens but are not citizens, and

WHEREAS the forum administration of the East Pacific has requested the Magisterium provide advice on the treatment of ambassadors and other foreign dignitaries,

THEREFORE, the Magisterium resolves as follows:

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration create a permission mask and user group for ambassadors and foreign dignitaries, entitled "Foreign Dignitaries," and grant holders of that permission mask regular permissions for all public areas of the East Pacific forum.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration set the color of this permission mask and user group as yellow.

RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration apply the citizen permission mask and user group to any individual that is both a citizen and a foreign dignitary, except if that citizen requests the application of the foreign dignitary permission mask.

RECOGNIZES that this resolution shall be known and cited as the Foreign Dignitaries Mask Resolution.
The Federated Alliance of Free Pacific States | Lyon Republic | Republic of Xiopothos | East Pacific Treaty Organization
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Just a style preference here...

Quote:
 
RECOMMENDS that the East Pacific forum administration create a permission mask and user group for ambassadors and foreign dignitaries, entitled "Foreign Dignitaries," and grant holders of that permission mask regular permissions for all public areas of the East Pacific forum.


Otherwise, I like it!
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Free Pacific States
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Number One Drone
Edited. Keep it coming.
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Todd McCloud
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Planet Telox
Anything else? We've not had a comment for this in about six days or so.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

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"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
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