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| Making Offices | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 9 2011, 10:29:15 PM (3,218 Views) | |
| Todd McCloud | Oct 9 2011, 10:29:15 PM Post #1 |
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Planet Telox
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So after getting permission to make a topic from the Provost, I figured I'd run an idea by you all. This is one of two ideas I want to run by you right now, but since I've been sick and it's the start of the work week, I'll probably get the other idea out soon but not tonight. During my campaign thread I suggested creating two offices: one for making newspapers and actually giving the job a title, and another office whereby they'd be in charge of the current office of tourism + working with the delegate to get people to the forums. These appear to be small changes on first glance, but really, these are two major problem areas in the region that I would like to correct. Newspaper section has had periods of going well and becoming stagnant. Office of Tourism has really only had a few periods of activity, but now, we need to face the facts that it is in definite need of a revival. How do we fix these things? We've tried appointing people, but that's had degrees of success and failure. We've tried putting more than one person in the office, but that didn't work either. Personally, I feel if the two became elected offices, that would motivate the individuals to do good work. There they can develop the itineraries they'd like to follow, establish a set of goals they want to accomplish for their term, etc. In other words, it better acknowledges the job and gives the departments some guidelines to follow, which of course better help to improve the departments and find areas to improve them. Creating some baseline rules and regulations gives these offices further credence and keeps them in check. I want to open up discussions for creating the duties and regulations for these two officers. We would need to name these two officers (personally I like Officer of Regional Connectivity for the Officer of Tourism and Officer of Propaganda for the newspaper, but that's just me), and outline their duties, though I personally believe this does not need to be in-depth specifics. I can create rough outlines and have people pick them over, but I don't want to do that. I'd rather see what you all can come up with, personally. Kind of feel we should brainstorm first then put some ideas down anyway. So, have at it! |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 10 2011, 12:03:04 AM Post #2 |
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The Boll Weevel
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I like these ideas. Speaking from personal experience, having an Office of the Newspaper might help as putting together a newspaper is no easy task! Believe me, it isn't! Now, we just need to work out a working amendment outlining the duties of these offices (and no offense, Todd, but I think Office of Tourism and Customer Service and the Office of Newspapers that isn't run by Jonah Jameson are much better, but that's just me. ). |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Carondia | Oct 10 2011, 08:13:28 AM Post #3 |
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Call me Carondia
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I like the idea. We have each one elected to a six(?) month term and serving infinite terms, that way if someone is good we also don't lose them. Should we format this as a Law or a Resolution or an Amendment. |
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Citizen of The East Pacific former Magister of The East Pacific | |
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| Reminisci | Oct 10 2011, 01:47:15 PM Post #4 |
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One of Us
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Eh, regardless of whether or not we look into something like this, I would like to point out that Propaganda might not be the best term to use here, unless of course you're looking to have the office seen as "biased or misleading in nature" right out the gate. That's just my thinking. As for the other, I do like the use of Connectivity. |
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 12 2011, 03:04:19 PM Post #5 |
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Planet Telox
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Yeah I figured today 'propaganda' has kind of a negative connotation. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 12 2011, 03:06:01 PM Post #6 |
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Planet Telox
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As for the format, that's up to you guys. I'm just opening the talk for the idea - I'd like to see the Magisterium work on this. Six month terms are OK, but people might burn out from the work involved. I'd suggest three, but that's just me. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Stateless | Oct 12 2011, 04:20:09 PM Post #7 |
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Tandy 400
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I'll be honest, 3 goes by really fast! I think 4! |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| Carondia | Oct 12 2011, 06:26:08 PM Post #8 |
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Call me Carondia
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Let's say law and for now I'll go with four. Draft?
Please revise |
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Citizen of The East Pacific former Magister of The East Pacific | |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 12 2011, 09:28:08 PM Post #9 |
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The Boll Weevel
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Looks okay. Now it also depends on Todd's opinion as well, since this is his idea now. |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Kelssek | Oct 14 2011, 02:14:31 AM Post #10 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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I would favour appointment by the Delegate, rather than election, for responsibilities such as this. These are "civil service" sort of positions; perhaps an application process might be more appropriate. Democratic accountability isn't what we're looking for here, as we would for a more powerful and political role, what we want is simple competence and commitment. |
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| Stateless | Oct 14 2011, 04:17:36 PM Post #11 |
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Tandy 400
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I to, think that an application process should be necessary, this way, it would show that they want it, and at the same time, the delegate, or whoever looks over the applications, can pick who they fell would best fill the position |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| Kelssek | Oct 14 2011, 05:09:36 PM Post #12 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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This is my alternative suggestion: 9. The Delegate shall be responsible for soliciting applications from those interested in serving in these positions, and shall appoint or remove them at the Delegate's pleasure. Furthermore, I don't see why we should restrict these positions to regional citizens. If the Delegate trusts someone to do a good job that's what I'd consider good enough, and someone active in several regions may in fact be just what we need. These are not political or sensitive positions and I think it's unnecessary to have requirements and an appointment process this stringent, much less term limits. Neither is it necessary to have a vote on firing them if they aren't doing a good job/inactive, the Delegate is their boss and if the boss isn't happy with job performance, the boss fires them. Also, a better name might be "Regional Promotion Officials Act". |
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| Carondia | Oct 14 2011, 06:32:32 PM Post #13 |
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Call me Carondia
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Disagree. Have you read Todd's Original Post? He says that Appointment HAS NOT WORKED. Therefore we can't just refine the application process, we need to turn it into a voting process. |
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Citizen of The East Pacific former Magister of The East Pacific | |
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| Kelssek | Oct 14 2011, 06:53:45 PM Post #14 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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That is Todd's opinion. I'll give it weight because Todd has been running this kind of stuff and I haven't, but do you really think we'll magically have more committed and competent people just by changing the way they get the job? Voting and term limits add extra difficulties, work (especially for the Viceroy), and procedure which are not warranted for these sorts of functions. We've all seen in the Magisterium that election is no panacea for a lack of commitment and/or inactivity. Furthermore, why should we make it so difficult to remove them from the position? The tenure and protection they're being given is akin to that of Magisters and Arbiters. If they're not living up to their responsibilities adequately the Delegate should simply be able to choose someone else and remove the previous guy. |
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| Stateless | Oct 14 2011, 06:57:36 PM Post #15 |
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Tandy 400
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Delegate could go through the applications he gets, and he will pick 2-3 that he likes, and then the Regional Citizens can vote on that. I also agree that whoever it is doesn't necessarily have to be a citizen, as long as they produce good material. |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 14 2011, 10:53:35 PM Post #16 |
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Planet Telox
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Personally, I feel elections versus appointments are "I will do this for the job" versus "you are required to do this for the job." It gives the individual a set of accountability for himself or herself and not just a set of precedents dictated by the region. In other words, I believe it's a lot easier to have someone motivated if they want to do it and they step up to the challenge rather than someone picking them to do it. I understand it's more work for the viceroy, and consequently another run of elections to have, but these two areas - forum / NS connectivity and connectivity with other regions - are our two biggest concerns. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 14 2011, 11:26:38 PM Post #17 |
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The Boll Weevel
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I think we should make them elections, but we should give whoever is elected free reign on how they want to do it. They still have to do it, but how they do it is up to them. |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Stateless | Oct 15 2011, 12:35:53 PM Post #18 |
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Tandy 400
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I agree with this aswell. As long as they produce material worth reading/watching(If they make videos), Then by all means, let them do it how they want! |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| Kelssek | Oct 15 2011, 03:49:13 PM Post #19 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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I'm surprised to hear that you see appointment as requiring someone to fill a role. My presumption is that appointing implies getting people to apply for the position, which means they will have to want to do the job. No one, after all, can be required to serve in a position if they don't want it. And with all respect to Todd, I have a lot of trouble telling another official (the Viceroy) that they must run another set of elections because the delegate is of the opinion that it will add to an intangible feeling of motivation. It also makes no sense to have term limits: as long as they're doing a good job they should be able to stay in the position if they so wish. On a separate point, if we want to give the positions free rein, then we ought not to specify things like "publish a monthly newsletter" but simply provide broad parameters for their powers/responsibilities. And regardless, what punishment are they going to be subject to if they don't do that? We shouldn't put that into law unless we also specify consequences for non-compliance. |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 16 2011, 12:03:53 AM Post #20 |
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The Boll Weevel
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Well, we can't really punish them for not doing their job. I guess we could say that the punishment is that they are unable to run for any other offices? But that might be too harsh, I guess. Kelssek does raise some good points. Anybody else have anything to add? |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 16 2011, 01:01:37 AM Post #21 |
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Planet Telox
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The only real difference I see in appointment vs. election is who decides who fulfills the role... as far as that is concerned. There are pros and cons with each decision. We've tried to do appointments in the past, but those tended to fizzle out. And I don't really think that's the fault of the appointee - it could have been a number of reasons, perhaps one of those reasons being a lack of explanation for said roles. The current office of tourism comes to mind; it's rather nebulous, don't you think? I agree we can't just give the position duties without consequence, but that's not really a discussion for me to intervene with. I just feel elections offer a deeper sense of connectivity. You say appointment is about getting people to apply for it. I agree. But if no one wants to apply for it, what then? The appointer then needs to ask people if they'd like to do it. Eventually, hopefully sooner than later, someone accepts. What I'm trying to say is that the "I chose you, would you be willing to do this?" has to turn into "I'm willing to do this, and here's how" for the appointee, or the appointment probably won't turn out well. Furthermore, an appointment can easily turn into the appointee asking the appointer what to do, where to go, etc. I don't want that to turn into an all-the-time thing; great minds think for themselves. I understand a learning curve is expected in some areas, but I in the end envision these positions as potential stepping-stones to higher offices later down the road. There are ways around that above argument, however. There are compromises for that. Ie, delegate opens topic for each office to anyone wishing to join up on it. Those who are interested in joining must state in said thread their goals and what not, subject to outward questions, critiques, support, etc. After some time, the delegate chooses who the office holder will be. In other words, it's much like elections, but the delegate decides the final outcome, and the Vicroy is spared adding another cycle of elections. This way I still get what I want, which is the appointee addressing the people and not just the delegate. I guess what I'm trying to say with that is I don't want these offices to simply be umbrellaed over the delegate; they do not serve the delegate - they serve the region. You know? We also get a more hands-on approach to this process, another thing I like. All in all, this is just me throwing out ideas here. Again, stated before, I hold no power here and just voice my opinion and the likes. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Kelssek | Oct 16 2011, 11:46:14 PM Post #22 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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Personally I think this kind of public application process would be a good idea. It's not that I'm dead set against elections, it's just I'm unconvinced we'd gain from that rigamarole in this case. A public process would be an improvement over what I suggested. |
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| Kurogasa | Oct 17 2011, 06:26:29 PM Post #23 |
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Viceroy
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just an opinion as a fellow Citizen if I'm allowed. First of...Todd, Officer of Propaganda?, seriously?...propaganda is never a good word. Anyway, I think the newspaper position should be something like "editor in chief", where the appointed officer is the responsible of getting the final version of the issue but he could ask other people for help or to take care of a part of it. that way the "editor" wouldn't have to make each and every single issue all by himself (or herself) and at the same time it would get other people involved with it. and going with the last idea you said, maybe in the first period the nominees state the names in a thread and you pick one to be the "editor" and the rest could work for him to help in the issues. It could be a job without terms, the editor would be appointed for life and if he wants to quit he would be able to appoint his succesor from his staff or if the editor is MIA or isn't doing his job the delegate would be able to remove him from office and then pick another one. |
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I don't want to conquer the world, I want the people to put me as their leader for themselves (or I will have to conquer it, anyways it will be mine soon). "What is a rebel? A man who says no" -Albert Camus- "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms." -Genghis Khan- | |
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| Todd McCloud | Oct 19 2011, 06:20:34 PM Post #24 |
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Planet Telox
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Yeah, I was being a little silly with that. Was hoping some would read that and respond just because of how silly it was ^_____^ *Todd McCloud hopes our awesome Magisterium can iron this out and get things going here. We've had a good set of opinions made back and forth, and different opinions too, perhaps we could have a re-draft? Or if not, further discussion here? I don't want to lead the discussion or anything, just making a suggestion. |
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"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it." "You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page | |
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| Stateless | Oct 19 2011, 07:32:22 PM Post #25 |
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Tandy 400
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I'm not to sure this is the best title for this? Just wanted to debate the title |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 19 2011, 11:12:12 PM Post #26 |
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The Boll Weevel
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I think we should redraft this. As for the names: Tourism== Office of Tourism Newspaper== Editor in Chief of The East Pacific Standard/Times/Sentinel/Newspaper (Although I'm guessing people will just want Newspaper) |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Stateless | Oct 19 2011, 11:21:34 PM Post #27 |
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Tandy 400
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Yeah, I agree on redrafting too, I'll comment on the names later, I'm tired. |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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| Kelssek | Oct 20 2011, 02:39:42 AM Post #28 |
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Hero of the Soviet Onion
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I suggested "Regional Promotion Officials Act" earlier. |
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| SCKnightVulshain | Oct 21 2011, 10:40:54 AM Post #29 |
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The Boll Weevel
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Office Act of October 2011 1. Office of the Editor in Chief of The East Pacific Times 1A: Editor in Chief will be elected by the citizens of TEP and approved by the Delegate. 2A: Editor in Chief will be in charge of putting together TEP Times in a timely fashion. 2B: Editor in Chief has full control in how the newspaper looks, but all content must be appropriate. 3A: Newspaper should however include a summary of roleplaying and government events. 4A: Should the Editor in Chief ever step down for any reason whatsoever, a new Editor in Chief will be elected. 2. Office of Tourism 1A: Head Tour Guide will be in charge of the Office of Tourism and will be responsible in connecting the in-game region with the forums. 2A: Head Tour Guide will be elected and approved in the same manner as the Editor in Chief. 3A: Head Tour Guide will also be responsible in removing RMB spam violators, attracting people to the forums via in person invitations, telegrams, etc. Other tasks will include explaining how things are done at TEP. 4A: Should Head Tour Guide step down for any reason, a new election will be conducted. |
| Confederacy of Vulshain | |
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| Stateless | Oct 21 2011, 11:26:34 AM Post #30 |
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Tandy 400
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Don't see how he/she could do this, only Delegate can remove RMB posts |
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WhatWhatInTheButt FORMER:
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7:42 PM Jul 10