Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Trending Topics
Regional Information
The East Pacific brought to you by,
Where to Start?

Social
Discord
IRC
Skype
Steam Group

Roleplay
Regional Atlas
In-Character
News Broadcasts
Out of Character

Government
Executive Offices
Delegate: Yuno
Magisterium
Provost: Drachen
Conclave
Viceroy: Aelitia





Welcome to The East Pacific. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you may register an account here!


I'm registered. Where do I start?
When you sign up on our forums, your account may be limited to certain forums, and unable to make requests in our roleplay section. We recommend that you Apply for Citizenship to gain all the benefits of being part of our roleplay community!

Username:   Password:
Multiquote ON Multiquote off
Locked Topic
Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act
Topic Started: Jun 7 2012, 12:13:04 PM (1,395 Views)
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
The second of two things for the new Magisterium to consider:


Quote:
 
Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act


Preamble

An army of WA nations organized by The East Pacific and ready to attack and protect in the name of The East Pacific will hereby be established and accommodated within the forums following the passage of this act.


Citation

This law may be cited as the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act.


Declarations of War

1. Following the passage of this act, The East Pacific will hereby be capable of making formal declarations of war against other regions. Declarations of war must be voted on by Magisterium, where they must be supported by at least 75% of the Magisterium’s members to be considered by the Delegate. The Delegate has the power, within five days of the declaration’s ratification (as announced by the Provost), to approve of or veto a declaration of war that has been supported by 75% of the Magisterium. If the Delegate vetoes a declaration of war, the Magisterium must subsequently support it unanimously to overrule the Delegate’s response. If the Magisterium initially supports the motion to declare war unanimously or if the Delegate fails to veto the declaration within 5 days of its ratification, the Delegate cannot veto it.

2. If a foreign region or organization declares war on The East Pacific, The East Pacific will automatically be at war with this region or organization without the Magisterium’s vote or the Delegate’s approval.


General

The Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army (EPSA), as this army is to be named, will not mobilize within any region with which The East Pacific is at war, unless:

1. This region is The East Pacific and it is mobilizing to secure the position of the Delegate or of a Vizier,

2. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is occupied by or is being entered by a force with which The East Pacific is at war,

3. Those in control of the region in which the EPSA is mobilizing have permitted the EPSA to mobilize within their region,

4. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is a warzone.


Organization

1. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may use their powers to violate the laws of the government of The East Pacific. If they are found to be breaking the law through the abuse of their abilities within the Army, they will be punished accordingly by the Conclave.

2. The highest rank in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will be the Field Marshal, a rank which the elected Delegate of the region will automatically be assigned. The Field Marshal must appoint a General who will be the Field Marshal’s second-in-command (and who the Field Marshal may replace with any Army member at any time). There may only be one Field Marshal and one General. The Field Marshal is capable of overruling any decision made by the General or by any soldier of a lesser rank. Further creation and organization of the army’s ranks will be left to the Field Marshal and General to design.

3. The Field Marshal and General will handle the admission of Army members publicly on The East Pacific’s forum.

4. The Field Marshal must establish an official emblem for the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army which, should the Army occupy a hostile region or a warzone, will be used to replace/establish the occupied region’s flag.

5. To participate in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army, a nation must hold the status of “citizen” within the government of The East Pacific.

6. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may serve simultaneously and actively in another region's or organization’s military. If they are found to be doing this or if the Field Marshal/General has the right to believe that they are participating in irrelevant military activity due to fluctuating WA status and/or unexplained relocations, the Field Marshal or General must expel them from the Army.

7. If members of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army are found to be incapable of conducting themselves appropriately within the Army, they are subject to demotion, suspension, and/or expulsion from the Army by the General or by the Field Marshal.

8. Positions held within the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not conflict with any positions held within The East Pacific’s government, and involvement in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not bar its members from participation in other regions and organizations (excluding the participation described in #6 and unless by law of these foreign regions and organizations).

9. Citizens of The East Pacific will not lose their citizenship if their nation leaves The East Pacific on the orders of the EPSA.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
It looks good to me! I think its important for Feeders to have a standing army. I will be supporting this.

Starting an army is a difficult task, I'm sure with the right leadership it will be successful.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
Well I hereby move for a vote,
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Kalibarr
Member Avatar
You got blood on my Suit.
I second that motion
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
packilvania
Member Avatar
Caliph
While I have no rights as a citizen, I feel I must shed some light on history.

TEP has never had a standing army, or the ability to wage war. It was actually part of our first concordant that it would never be allowed to happen. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. My apologies for interjecting, but I do not want to see my region plunged into chaos again.
Posted Image
"The Cybernets shall overrun every thing you hold dear. Assimilate."

Loop: Well that rules out my Atomic Metroid Spy Toilet I had planned.
DFD: WAAAAH, you butt hurt me. Cry cry cry.
Todd My foreign officer ended up pushing her wiener (gl@sses) further up the bridge of her nose.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Understandable, though deliberately emasculating ourselves wouldn't be wise. TEP needs to keep up with the times. The feeders are raising armies. It's about time we were able to swing our collective weight around rather than sit about passively and let people like those in the GGR walk on us. While the system I devised is not perfect, I did what I could to prevent it from becoming a corrupted one in the future. No system is perfectly incorruptible. That doesn't mean that we should thus avoid doing anything.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
drakkengard
Member Avatar
WA Liaison
I know i´m no longer a magister, but as a concerned citizen, i must say that i´m against the proposed act, as both the writing and AMOM reply to Pack are indicating the goal of this army is to be an attack force that will bring us nothing but unwanted trouble.
Not to mention that GGR rants or the other feeders buiding armies do not seem reason enough to do anything more than perhaps have lessons on how to defend ourselves from invasions.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
"...indicating the goal of this army is to be an attack force that will bring us nothing but unwanted trouble."

This statement is false. I also like the idea of the feeders being able to help each other out in times of need with more than a few words of support (which is all they have been able to offer each other for a while, and it's not going to cut it anymore). This isn't just about offensive retaliation against those who infringe upon our sovereignty; it's about actually being able to provide our allies with something more than a few toothless words when their walls are being battered down.

An offensive effort against GGR would without a doubt pull people into the service. A long-term commitment, however, is what I seek, but without the excitement of offensive maneuvers people aren't going to make that commitment. It's the sad truth.

The feeders have been sleeping giants for a while. We're wasting a lot of potential by saying that we're too powerful for our own good and sitting on our hands. I don't believe in that idea. There is always a way to use our power to its fullest without making it a harmful thing.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
I don't feel there is need to apologize, as your magisters it is important that we know what you think.

I must however agree with AMOM. I have recently had the responsibility of raising an army in The North Pacific. The South Pacific is taking similar measures. If the east wishes to keep up with the rest of the feeders it is necessary for it to take similar action itself.

I don't believe that an East Pacific Army would simply be an attack force, drawing unwanted attention onto itself. It will give The East the ability to work with other feeder armies to fight against mutual enemies, and work together improving diplomatic relations along the way.

The East Pacific must look towards the future, i feel that it is necessary that an army be a part of such a future. It is (no insult intended) a little silly to be jumping the gun, and declaring that an army would bring negative attention/war to The East Pacific.

It is not clear that an Army would be able to gain significant numbers or activity. If however we block this legislation, we would be preventing TEP from taking the chance and necessary steps to making itself a force for good in the nationstates world.

As long as the army continues to serve the people of the east, and defend its allies, it could only be a good thing. I believe this is the intention of such legislation.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Todd McCloud
Member Avatar
Planet Telox
This is an interesting argument, and as a Magister that is comprised of just three individuals, I welcome anyone to participate in this discussion. That being said, I'll start off by tackling this document point-by-point:

Declarations of War
 
1. Following the passage of this act, The East Pacific will hereby be capable of making formal declarations of war against other regions. Declarations of war must be voted on by Magisterium, where they must be supported by at least 75% of the Magisterium’s members to be considered by the Delegate. The Delegate has the power, within five days of the declaration’s ratification (as announced by the Provost), to approve of or veto a declaration of war that has been supported by 75% of the Magisterium. If the Delegate vetoes a declaration of war, the Magisterium must subsequently support it unanimously to overrule the Delegate’s response. If the Magisterium initially supports the motion to declare war unanimously or if the Delegate fails to veto the declaration within 5 days of its ratification, the Delegate cannot veto it.

2. If a foreign region or organization declares war on The East Pacific, The East Pacific will automatically be at war with this region or organization without the Magisterium’s vote or the Delegate’s approval.


This part appears to be an extension of Article B, section 8 of our Concordat:

Quote:
 
Section 8) The Magisterium may ratify by majority vote a declaration of war or treaty submitted by the Delegate.


But it looks like declarations of war have been tightened a bit. Where the Concordat seems to be pretty loose for such things, this one has a more clearly defined process. Specifically, it makes things a bit more complicated, I think. Not a bad idea, but I like what we have currently in our Concordat, just because of its flexibility, though I do like the caveat of the delegate being able to veto a war declaration. I don't know about point 2. What happens if a really tiny org declares war with us - do we really want to engage in a war with an org that really doesn't have the capabilities to war in the first place?

Quote:
 
4. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is a warzone.

If you mean Warzone regions, like Warzone Europe or Warzone Sandbox, I'd recommend changing the wording here to 'game-recognized warzone region' or something to that tune.


The rest looks fairly rudimentary. You'd find much of that text in any region's army legislation for the most part. I guess what I am curious about is the implementation. I can't speak for all TEPers, but it seems to me that the majority of older members might remember the heinous acts of the Empire and hence have that experience to draw on when it comes to things like 'armies' 'occupations' and 'war'. Having many raider and defender folks here (mostly former), it also causes a bit of concern because I am not entirely sold on the issue of a 'neutral' army. And, once we pick a side, if we do pick a side, we become allies to one faction and enemies to the other. And usually it's very easy to make that jump off a fence and into a particular group - all you really need to do is tick off one side, and we're there.

So I guess I have a few questions:
1. What's the main purpose of such an army?
2. How would we maintain its neutrality?
3. Would having an army keep us more secure or more open to attack? Or do we really need to worry about security based on the current structures we have in our government?
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
Online Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Thank you for responding, Todd; I'll be very busy for the next few days but I will reply to your concerns soon.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Quote:
 
do we really want to engage in a war with an org that really doesn't have the capabilities to war in the first place?


This is a good point, though the state of war would mainly be declared arbitrarily and we wouldn't actually have to attack regions that didn't have the materials to go to war with us or damage us in any way.

I wrote this mainly because, if a considerable entity declared war on TEP, the army might have to act as quickly as possible and waiting for the legislative and executive branch to declare war would not be practical.

Quote:
 
If you mean Warzone regions, like Warzone Europe or Warzone Sandbox, I'd recommend changing the wording here to 'game-recognized warzone region' or something to that tune.


Yes, I’d best edit that.

Quote:
 
… I am not entirely sold on the issue of a 'neutral' army. And, once we pick a side, if we do pick a side, we become allies to one faction and enemies to the other. And usually it's very easy to make that jump off a fence and into a particular group - all you really need to do is tick off one side, and we're there.


I did my best in the wording, mainly with the embellishment of declarations of war, to avoid this kind of situation occurring within TEP’s army; perhaps, however, it must be much more firmly asserted and with direct terminology. I believe that it is possible to have neutral armies in NS these days; TSP could be a shining example if it wasn’t for Unibot’s FA failure, and that one isn’t TSP’s fault. It’s a fairly simple concept, really; a neutral army is an army that defends the region’s allies attacks the region’s enemies specifically and doesn’t take groups of people that the region has never been involved with and fight or aid them as well. It’s about time regions began to assert their independence and be able to participate in the world of NS war and organized WA militarism without being dragged into the dominating R/D dynamic. Which better regions to make this push than the feeders?

Quote:
 
1. What's the main purpose of such an army?


I’d say there are really two main purposes: activity and authority. Armies breed activity and interest in the game as well as loyalty to the regions that harbor them. The formal alliances between the Pacifics also mean next to nothing if we can only supply our friends with a few statements of support when they’re under attack; with a group of organized armies, the Pacifics can watch each others’ backs and promote activity within their apathetic populaces; something we’re lacking currently. We should have the ability to assert our power within our homes even more forcibly and show those that would make these regions a playground that we will chew them up and spit them out when they try to break down our doors.

Quote:
 
2. How would we maintain its neutrality?


Firmly.

The measures I took within the text of the legislation itself to achieve this were various. Like I said, the system for declarations of war was made fairly complicated: only a totally raider/defender dominated executive and legislative branch would allow this to be abused and would allow the region to declare war on as many regions as they chose to in order to make the army’s interaction with them relevant.

Also, it is unlikely that large numbers of raiders or defenders would be “weekend” participants or sleepers within TEP’s army due to its strict rule against simultaneous militant participation. If they want to raid or defend, they can do so somewhere else. TEP’s army only has room for those who are entirely loyal to TEP.

I’m going to write into the legislation very specifically, however, as a final measure here, that the army or government will never officially pick a side in the R/D conflict. I think that will be the icing on the cake.

Quote:
 
3. Would having an army keep us more secure or more open to attack? Or do we really need to worry about security based on the current structures we have in our government?


If anything building our army will keep us even more secure than we already are, or simply help to guarantee our near imperviousness. Collaboration within the feeders will prompt more organization within our allies’ armies and quicker response times on their parts should we find ourselves in need of assistance. Anyone who would express hostility against TEP and threaten its security in response to our region’s formation of an independent army was no friend of TEP to begin with; outspoken enemies are easier to fight than silent, hidden ones anyway. Most regions could never raise a hand against us in our own home anyway because of our executive structure.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
Thanks for clarifying somethings for us AMOM.

The armies allegiance is always going to be called into question at some point, we shall have to ensure that at all times it reflects neutrality and defence of TEP's allies and interests at all times.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Quote:
 
Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act


Preamble

An army of WA nations organized by The East Pacific and ready to attack and protect in the name of The East Pacific will hereby be established and accommodated within the forums following the passage of this act.


Citation

This law may be cited as the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act.


Declarations of War

1. Following the passage of this act, The East Pacific will hereby be capable of making formal declarations of war against other regions. Declarations of war must be voted on by Magisterium, where they must be supported by at least 75% of the Magisterium’s members to be considered by the Delegate. The Delegate has the power, within five days of the declaration’s ratification (as announced by the Provost), to approve of or veto a declaration of war that has been supported by 75% of the Magisterium. If the Delegate vetoes a declaration of war, the Magisterium must subsequently support it unanimously to overrule the Delegate’s response. If the Magisterium initially supports the motion to declare war unanimously or if the Delegate fails to veto the declaration within 5 days of its ratification, the Delegate cannot veto it.

2. If a foreign region or organization declares war on The East Pacific, The East Pacific will automatically be at war with this region or organization without the Magisterium’s vote or the Delegate’s approval.


General

The Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army (EPSA), as this army is to be named, will not mobilize within any region with which The East Pacific is at war, unless:

1. This region is The East Pacific and it is mobilizing to secure the position of the Delegate or of a Vizier,

2. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is occupied by or is being entered by a force with which The East Pacific is at war,

3. Those in control of the region in which the EPSA is mobilizing have permitted the EPSA to mobilize within their region,

4. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is a warzone (as defined by the in-game region tag).


Organization

1. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may use their powers to violate the laws of the government of The East Pacific. If they are found to be breaking the law through the abuse of their abilities within the Army, they will be punished accordingly by the Conclave.

2. The highest rank in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will be the Field Marshal, a rank which the elected Delegate of the region will automatically be assigned. The Field Marshal must appoint a General who will be the Field Marshal’s second-in-command (and who the Field Marshal may replace with any Army member at any time). There may only be one Field Marshal and one General. The Field Marshal is capable of overruling any decision made by the General or by any soldier of a lesser rank. Further creation and organization of the army’s ranks will be left to the Field Marshal and General to design.

3. The Field Marshal and General will handle the admission of Army members publicly on The East Pacific’s forum.

4. The Field Marshal must establish an official emblem for the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army which, should the Army occupy a hostile region or a warzone, will be used to replace/establish the occupied region’s flag.

5. To participate in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army, a nation must hold the status of “citizen” within the government of The East Pacific.

6. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may serve simultaneously and actively in another region's or organization’s military. If they are found to be doing this or if the Field Marshal/General has the right to believe that they are participating in irrelevant military activity due to fluctuating WA status and/or unexplained relocations, the Field Marshal or General must expel them from the Army.

7. If members of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army are found to be incapable of conducting themselves appropriately within the Army, they are subject to demotion, suspension, and/or expulsion from the Army by the General or by the Field Marshal.

8. The Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will never formally declare itself as being either "defender" or "raider."

9. Positions held within the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not conflict with any positions held within The East Pacific’s government, and involvement in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not bar its members from participation in other regions and organizations (excluding the participation described in #6 and unless by law of these foreign regions and organizations).

10. Citizens of The East Pacific will not lose their citizenship if their nation leaves The East Pacific on the orders of the EPSA.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
ok, well with those amendments I move for a vote, Again. :)
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Todd McCloud
Member Avatar
Planet Telox
A mean old man
Jun 17 2012, 02:16 AM
Quote:
 
do we really want to engage in a war with an org that really doesn't have the capabilities to war in the first place?


This is a good point, though the state of war would mainly be declared arbitrarily and we wouldn't actually have to attack regions that didn't have the materials to go to war with us or damage us in any way.

I wrote this mainly because, if a considerable entity declared war on TEP, the army might have to act as quickly as possible and waiting for the legislative and executive branch to declare war would not be practical.


Understood. I can see how if one region were to declare war on us, we'd be in a state of war and both regions should at least be able to recognize that. Mos regions don't really 'declare war' from what I've seen / remembered - they generally just attack and then work on the formalities later.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
… I am not entirely sold on the issue of a 'neutral' army. And, once we pick a side, if we do pick a side, we become allies to one faction and enemies to the other. And usually it's very easy to make that jump off a fence and into a particular group - all you really need to do is tick off one side, and we're there.


I did my best in the wording, mainly with the embellishment of declarations of war, to avoid this kind of situation occurring within TEP’s army; perhaps, however, it must be much more firmly asserted and with direct terminology. I believe that it is possible to have neutral armies in NS these days; TSP could be a shining example if it wasn’t for Unibot’s FA failure, and that one isn’t TSP’s fault. It’s a fairly simple concept, really; a neutral army is an army that defends the region’s allies attacks the region’s enemies specifically and doesn’t take groups of people that the region has never been involved with and fight or aid them as well. It’s about time regions began to assert their independence and be able to participate in the world of NS war and organized WA militarism without being dragged into the dominating R/D dynamic. Which better regions to make this push than the feeders?

Alright. I suppose it boils down with how often such an army is used. If it is used only when TEP's allies or TEP itself is being attacked, or perhaps to assist another ally with a particular mission, it would then see action. Otherwise, it'd pretty much be dormant aside from maybe a training mission here and there. Is that right?

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
1. What's the main purpose of such an army?


I’d say there are really two main purposes: activity and authority. Armies breed activity and interest in the game as well as loyalty to the regions that harbor them. The formal alliances between the Pacifics also mean next to nothing if we can only supply our friends with a few statements of support when they’re under attack; with a group of organized armies, the Pacifics can watch each others’ backs and promote activity within their apathetic populaces; something we’re lacking currently. We should have the ability to assert our power within our homes even more forcibly and show those that would make these regions a playground that we will chew them up and spit them out when they try to break down our doors.

Very well, but I question the frequency here. Feeder coups are becoming less and less of a problem as regions become more and more capable of defending themselves. A great defense has often been stemmed from active, loyal, and high-influenced members in the region, which we have and which we've used before to remove coups or threats from the region.

I also see it as a community attention-getter. I can see that, but could you go into a little more detail with that? It would give newer members something to do, but unless the ranks are coached well and the system is organized, it can actually hurt morale.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
3. Would having an army keep us more secure or more open to attack? Or do we really need to worry about security based on the current structures we have in our government?


If anything building our army will keep us even more secure than we already are, or simply help to guarantee our near imperviousness. Collaboration within the feeders will prompt more organization within our allies’ armies and quicker response times on their parts should we find ourselves in need of assistance. Anyone who would express hostility against TEP and threaten its security in response to our region’s formation of an independent army was no friend of TEP to begin with; outspoken enemies are easier to fight than silent, hidden ones anyway. Most regions could never raise a hand against us in our own home anyway because of our executive structure.

Will the army be more independent, or more of a division in a greater pacific army?


Sorry it's taken me some time to respond - I've been sick / busy these past few weeks but I will divert attention to this so we can maybe get something finalized soon.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
Online Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Quote:
 
Understood. I can see how if one region were to declare war on us, we'd be in a state of war and both regions should at least be able to recognize that. Mos regions don't really 'declare war' from what I've seen / remembered - they generally just attack and then work on the formalities later.


Perhaps the act should recognize an act of aggression as a declaration of war.

Quote:
 
Alright. I suppose it boils down with how often such an army is used. If it is used only when TEP's allies or TEP itself is being attacked, or perhaps to assist another ally with a particular mission, it would then see action. Otherwise, it'd pretty much be dormant aside from maybe a training mission here and there. Is that right?


The examples you described would be the only times that I would realistically want to see the army used in an influential fashion. However, the fact that all our allies within the feeders appear to be raising neutral armies could be extremely beneficial during periods of dormancy; a little friendly competition and training within the warzones (and possibly in locally created puppet regions), if it was approved of by all involved parties, could keep our armies active when they aren't defending our allies or attacking our enemies.

Quote:
 
Very well, but I question the frequency here. Feeder coups are becoming less and less of a problem as regions become more and more capable of defending themselves. A great defense has often been stemmed from active, loyal, and high-influenced members in the region, which we have and which we've used before to remove coups or threats from the region.


Armies could make the response time to coups almost instant and prevent things like the JAL coup in TNP from dragging on for as long as they did and making a farce of feeder democracy. TNP's SC, had it the help of the armies that exist today, would have had JAL sitting in TRR before you Collectively, we're getting stronger; we are not, however, impervious.

Quote:
 
I also see it as a community attention-getter. I can see that, but could you go into a little more detail with that? It would give newer members something to do, but unless the ranks are coached well and the system is organized, it can actually hurt morale.


I have a lot of faith in the people within this region and the people I've found to help me set this army up should it be approved by the Magisterium. We have people currently within TEP and from both sides of the R/D spectrum willing to dedicate 100% of their NS activity to this army and whose former or current connections will not jeopardize their ability to lead the ESPA as a neutral force. We can do this.

Quote:
 
Will the army be more independent, or more of a division in a greater pacific army?


I do not believe in a "greater pacific army." I believe in a sort of collaborative Pacific unity, but our independent armies cannot become some sort of amalgamated whole. The concept is unsettling.

There are times that our armies can all come together. The GGR is an outspoken enemy of all of us, and this time of war against them could be one of those times that the feeder armies all unite against a common enemy. Our armies, however, despite sometimes being given a common goal, must operate separately, under their own governments and under the control of their own officials. If action is to be coordinated, it must be done so by the leaders of the different armies and within the systems of each individual force. If our army is to be a "division" of anything, it will be of our own government, and not of a divided attitude.

The Pacific armies might be viewed by some as a greater Pacific army, especially when they all move together against regions like GGR. I'd imagine the idea of a united Pacific force might make some fearful of our influence. Good. Let them fear us. When people like those in GGR violate our laws and disrespect all of our homes, the world should see what we are willing to do to assert our dignity and demand respect from those who deny us it. But the armies, though they might appear as one at times, must not actually be one.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Edited in lieu of Todd's post.

Quote:
 
Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act


Preamble

An army of WA nations organized by The East Pacific and ready to attack and protect in the name of The East Pacific will hereby be established and accommodated within the forums following the passage of this act.


Citation

This law may be cited as the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Act.


Declarations of War

1. Following the passage of this act, The East Pacific will hereby be capable of making formal declarations of war against other regions. Declarations of war must be voted on by Magisterium, where they must be supported by at least 75% of the Magisterium’s members to be considered by the Delegate. The Delegate has the power, within five days of the declaration’s ratification (as announced by the Provost), to approve of or veto a declaration of war that has been supported by 75% of the Magisterium. If the Delegate vetoes a declaration of war, the Magisterium must subsequently support it unanimously to overrule the Delegate’s response. If the Magisterium initially supports the motion to declare war unanimously or if the Delegate fails to veto the declaration within 5 days of its ratification, the Delegate cannot veto it.

2. If a foreign region or organization declares war on or makes an act of militaristic aggression against The East Pacific or against the ESPA, The East Pacific will automatically be at war with this region or organization without the Magisterium’s vote or the Delegate’s approval.


General

The Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army (EPSA), as this army is to be named, will not mobilize within any region with which The East Pacific is at war, unless:

1. This region is The East Pacific and it is mobilizing to secure the position of the Delegate or of a Vizier,

2. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is occupied by or is being entered by a force with which The East Pacific is at war,

3. Those in control of the region in which the EPSA is mobilizing have permitted the EPSA to mobilize within their region,

4. The region in which the EPSA is mobilizing is a warzone (as defined by the in-game region tag).


Organization

1. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may use their powers to violate the laws of the government of The East Pacific. If they are found to be breaking the law through the abuse of their abilities within the Army, they will be punished accordingly by the Conclave.

2. The highest rank in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will be the Field Marshal, a rank which the elected Delegate of the region will automatically be assigned. The Field Marshal must appoint a General who will be the Field Marshal’s second-in-command (and who the Field Marshal may replace with any Army member at any time). There may only be one Field Marshal and one General. The Field Marshal is capable of overruling any decision made by the General or by any soldier of a lesser rank. Further creation and organization of the army’s ranks will be left to the Field Marshal and General to design.

3. The Field Marshal and General will handle the admission of Army members publicly on The East Pacific’s forum.

4. The Field Marshal must establish an official emblem for the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army which, should the Army occupy a hostile region or a warzone, will be used to replace/establish the occupied region’s flag.

5. To participate in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army, a nation must hold the status of “citizen” within the government of The East Pacific.

6. No member of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army may serve simultaneously and actively in another region's or organization’s military. If they are found to be doing this or if the Field Marshal/General has the right to believe that they are participating in irrelevant military activity due to fluctuating WA status and/or unexplained relocations, the Field Marshal or General must expel them from the Army.

7. If members of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army are found to be incapable of conducting themselves appropriately within the Army, they are subject to demotion, suspension, and/or expulsion from the Army by the General or by the Field Marshal.

8. The Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will never formally declare itself as being either "defender" or "raider."

9. Positions held within the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not conflict with any positions held within The East Pacific’s government, and involvement in the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army will not bar its members from participation in other regions and organizations (excluding the participation described in #6 and unless by law of these foreign regions and organizations).

10. Citizens of The East Pacific will not lose their citizenship if their nation leaves The East Pacific on the orders of the EPSA.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
With that done. I move for a vote.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Heh. Yes, I'm chomping at the bit to get something done as well. Maybe this time it will be seconded?
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Kalibarr
Member Avatar
You got blood on my Suit.
mcmasterdonia
Jun 23 2012, 11:08 AM
With that done. I move for a vote.

I second this motion
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Todd McCloud
Member Avatar
Planet Telox
Alright, I now open the floor to voting. Magisters have until Wednesday 9:00 pm EST (Thursday 3:00 am GMT) to vote on the current bill. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
Online Profile Goto Top
 
mcmasterdonia
Member Avatar
Kilroy was here
Aye
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Todd McCloud
Member Avatar
Planet Telox
Aye.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
Online Profile Goto Top
 
Kalibarr
Member Avatar
You got blood on my Suit.
Aye
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Todd McCloud
Member Avatar
Planet Telox
By a vote of 3-0, this law passes. I'll wire this over to the delegate.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II
Vekaiyu's Wiki Page | Ikrisia Levinile's Wiki Page | Listonia's Wiki Page
Online Profile Goto Top
 
A mean old man
Member Avatar
Curmudgeon
Approved.
The Weed-Choked Lawn of A mean old man
Always fighting crime -- especially youth-related.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Archive: Magisterium · Next Topic »
Locked Topic

Infinite is a customized version of Simple ZB created by Protego of Outline & Zetaboards Theme Zone
Icons by Paomedia and hosted by imgur


© The East Pacific 2003-2018