A Question

So since I now represent us in talks with the Empire…I need to get a general feel to what anyone would like to say on the following:

What if we concede our regional government to the Empire and maintain this forum but also join theirs to work in association on RPs. How would you feel about that? Would you be okay with that?

I need the know how I can best represent this govt/community in other compromises and proposals. I cannot reveal everything–maybe not even that–but I need to get a better feel in what I am doing.

I will say that we do have a proposal submitted that I feel is very acceptable but past that I cannot say anything more; I more than likely have said enough.

— Begin quote from ____

What if we concede our regional government to the Empire and maintain this forum but also join theirs to work in association on RPs. How would you feel about that? Would you be okay with that?

— End quote

Unacceptable under any circumstances.

If they want to work with us, they have to accept that THIS is the official forum.

Not to mention some of us have been restricted there anyway.

I don’t want The East Pacific’s forum to be called “The Purified Lands”. It smacks too much of connotations of genocide/ethnic cleansing. :ph43r:

As for me, I just don’t want to go there… I rather move my nation…

My stand is the proposal I submitted, I dont have it handy but If you want to post it I am sure it will be ok

I don’t really want to be a subject of the empire. And what’s good in having two forums for rp?

— Begin quote from ____

My stand is the proposal I submitted, I dont have it handy but If you want to post it I am sure it will be ok

— End quote

I do. Both of them, so I am going to post yours and my slight variations:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Loop’s Draft of The East Pacific’s Proposal

  1. a New forum will be created this forum will serve as the link point for www.theeastpacific.com the Root on this forum will be named SySop it will be a hared account between Phedre and Loop. Both Phedre and Loop will have their own personal accounts on this forum as well (Loop wants to be user 3 tho plox) . it shall initially have 3 sections,

Regional Government with all sub forums set as Redirects to The Purified Lands forum

Role Play and Social with all subforums rederecting to The East Pacific forum

Technical which will be for administrative announcements, Technical issues and Global Moderator discussion.

additionally The Core forum will have 2 Imperial co admins of the Empires choosing and 2 co admins of the confederacys choosing. it is recommended that these be elected positions.

The Core forum will have a Skin with influences from both the East Pacufic forum and The Purified lands.

  1. The Purified lands will be used for All regional Government All East Pacificans who wish to participate in any governmental issues will have to be registered here, this includes whatever for of loyalty oath is drafted, must be made here for citizenship

The Purified Lands will have a Co admin with Full admin privilages added from the Confederacy elected by the confederacy via public vote.

The East Pacific will work with the Imperial court to design an appealing and compatable Skin for the Purified lands forum

  1. The East Pacific will be used for All In Character and Role Play aspects of the Region, any member wishing to RP must be registered here under the same name they use in TPL forum

The East Pacific will appoint a Imperial Nobel to Co Admin with full admin privilages to The East Pacific the member to be selected by the Empire.

The East Pacific skin may be modified to make it work with the new Empire skin as well as the Core skin.

The Empire may submit “ads” to the ad rotator of the East Pacific

  1. The East Pacific and the Empire will appoint a comittee of no more than 10 members and no less than 6 evenly divided between the two groups to begin assembling the frameworr of the New EP government. Which will contain a Prime minister elected from initially the Confederacy who serves a term of 1 year and is there after elected from the RP forum members.
    And a representative Parliment that includes all member nations.

  2. A “Magna Carta” will be drafted by a neutral party which will contain gaurantees such as ,
    *Freedom of Religion both IRL and IC
    *Trial by Jury and all decisions published openly.

  • Prime minister has the same powers as the Empress
    *IP addresses will be protected by All parties, any sharing of them outside the region by any member will be punishable by an immeadiate suspension of 24 hours for first offence, and 1 week for second finally perminant for third offence,
    only Spammer (such as the porn spammers) IPs may be posted
    *Immunity from having Titles earned or privilages removed on either forum until duely tried No banning on a Whim.
    *Spying by either side on the onther will be a punishable offence punishment being set by jury.
    *No one is allowed to state their IRL race nor use it as a “Card” any admissions of race will be removed by moderators.
    *No post will be deleted, Offensive posts will be removed to an archive for the moderators eyes only
    *Rahl and Loop must make ammends a happy EP is not happy if its full of strife.

*an Open apology by all sides for their actions during this quarrel.

) Loop and Phedre will work together to adjust any accounts currently existing
to bring them into line so that Confederacy members and Imperial members have the same name on both forums.

) Citizenship will be honored on All boards

==================

I.
A new forum will be created this forum will serve as the link point for www.theeastpacific.com the Root on this forum should be Packilvania; owner of www.theeastpacific.com/retired NS member. Both Phedre and Loop will have their own personal accounts on this forum as well (Loop wants to be user 3 tho plox).

The new forum initially shall have 3 sections:

  1. Regional Government with all sub forums set as Redirects to The Purified Lands forum

  2. Role Play and Social with all sub forums redirecting to The East Pacific forum

  3. Technical which will be for administrative announcements, Technical issues and Global Moderator discussion.

Additionally “The Core forum” will have 2 Imperial Co-Admins of the Empires choosing and 2 Co-Admins of the Confederacy’s choosing; it is recommended that these be elected positions.

“The Core forum” will have a Skin with influences from both the East Pacific forum and The Purified Lands.

II.
The Purified Lands will be used for all regional government. All East Pacificans who wish to participate in any governmental issues will have to be registered there, this includes whatever for of loyalty oath is drafted, must be made here for citizenship

The Purified Lands will have a Co-Admins with full administrative privileges added from the Confederacy’s elected Co-Admins by the confederacy via public vote.

The East Pacific will work with the Imperial court to design an appealing and compatible Skin for the Purified Lands forum

III.
The East Pacific will be used for all In Character and Role Play aspects of the Region, any member wishing to RP must be registered here under the same name they use in TPL forum

The East Pacific will appoint a Imperial Nobel to Co-Admins with full administrative privileges to The East Pacific, the member to be selected by the Empire.

The East Pacific skin may be modified to make it work with the new Empire skin as well as the Core skin.

The Empire may submit “ads” to the ad rotator of the East Pacific

IV.
The East Pacific and the Empire will appoint a committee of no more than 10 members and no less than 6 evenly divided between the two groups to begin assembling the framework of the New EP government. Which will contain a Prime Minister elected initially from the Confederacy who serves a term of 1 year and is there after elected from the RP forum members.
And a representative Parliament that includes all member nations.

V.
A “Magna Carta” will be drafted by a neutral party which will contain guarantees such as ,
*Freedom of Religion both IRL and IC
*Trial by Jury and all decisions published openly.

  • Prime Minister has the same powers as the Empress
    *IP addresses will be protected by all parties, any sharing of them outside the region by any member will be punishable by an immediate suspension of 24 hours for first offense, and 1 week for second finally permanent for third offense; only Spammer (such as the porn spammers) IPs may be posted
    *Immunity from having Titles earned or privileges removed on either forum until duly tried in public court: No banning on a Whim.
    *Spying by either side on the other will be a punishable offense punishment being set by jury.
    *No one is allowed to state their IRL race nor use it as a “Card” any admissions of race will be removed by moderators.
    *No post will be deleted, Offensive posts will be removed to an archive for the moderators eyes only
    *Rahl and Loop must make amends a happy EP is not happy if its full of strife.

*an Open apology by all sides for their actions during this quarrel.

) Loop and Phedre will work together to adjust any accounts currently existing
to bring them into line so that Confederacy members and Imperial members have the same name on both forums.

) Citizenship will be honored on All boards

Three forums??

I don’t find anything instinctively objectionable about Loop’s proposal. However, the practicalities of three seperate forums will be difficult and only serves to accentuate the divide.

Not that I have a better idea though, seeing as neither side is willing to move to the others’ board.

I honestly don´t think the empire would accept the part of a prime minister with the same powers of the empress, or to use our forum as anything more than an archive. But go for it. Who knows. They might have learned what the word compromise means by now.

Given some of the latest things to come out of the Empire, especially Rahl’s interview, i do not think a compromise is likely from their side.

Yarr some soul abliged tae intrevue that scurvy rat?
har har har!

— Begin quote from ____

The summery of the issue is that, the Confederacy is not a large enough concern to justify the enormous sacrifices the Empire would be asked to make here. The Confederacy is approximately six active individuals, only two of which have ever taken part on the Empire’s board. We will not be loosing any participation if we proceed to ignore the Confederacy, since there are only two said active individuals. We also will not be facing threat-of-war since none of the confederation personal are trained Feeder warriors, and those that ARE capable of fighting (flemingovia, Biyah, Khark) can not take a Feeder on their own, and will soon have other things in mind as The North Pacific comes under siege.

— End quote

Proposal is “unacceptable” on the grounds of the following:

*3 forums are messy; to many admins; something about IP Address still being shown
*Committee idea = no; they have the upper and lower nobility that members here can join
*Never restricted religion etc
*Prime Minister = no; “The Empress is not the Queen of England”
*few more things that don’t feel like saying because it isn’t anything big like having the right to give titles of nobility and taking them away; did not address the baning part.
*Wont make amends with Loop until something of another to the 3rd power about his IP being public and that he hasn’t done anything and finds it offensive.

I want s GNN interview =]

Seriously, the only compromise they would be willing to make is us moving.

As Official Spokesman of The Confederated East Pacific we have a few options:

  1. Continue with Talks and redraft another proposal.
  2. Withdraw, and focus in rebuilding our government with the hopes to becoming the govt of The East Pacific (feeder) in the future or moving to our own region.
  3. Any other suggestions?

I see little appetite in the Empire for compromise, and prolonged discussion will suit the Empire far more than us. With every passing day the Empire gains legitimacy.

When this began I warned of the possibility that the Empire would string out talks, and representatives of Gatesville pooh poohed the idea. Yet it seems to me that this is exactly what has happened. Keeping the status quo going only ever helps the party in power.

If a war was to have been fought, it should have started weeks ago. As it is, gaining momentum would be very difficult.

So it seems to me that there are really two options: Surrender or fight. If it is to be fighting, then it needs to be wholehearted. If it is to be surrender, it needs to be absolute.

They already proved they don´t want to compromise, so keep talking is futile.

They will hold the power they stole and only let go if kicked out of the region.

I´ll never accept their government, as the power there is held only by the empress and her court. Their nobility is just a ridiculous ploy to fool the unwary in believing they have a voice there. And i won´t be part of a government where the will of the majority isn´t respected.

But sadly one thing they said is right, we are few… We hadn´t enough active players to protect our feeder, and now we don´t have enough to get it back by force.

So i favor option 2, EM. We should either move to a region of our own (just adding something to east pacific, like confederated or independent), and try to get as many new players we can the way the non-feeders do. Or move to a friendly active region, which would force us to abandon the east pacific name but would also instantly give us new active players to interact.

On recovering our feeder, i see only 2 options: Either join TNP (and/or who else fights then) and try help defeating Gates/Empire or wait until the Empire fall (which will happen someday either by external attack or internal revolt, because given their behavior eventually they´ll either pick a fight they can´t win or crumble as their commoners and “nobles” will get tired of being nobodies there and leave) and try to get the feeder back then.

End the talks,
they anly want to legitimize themselves and the talks are but a way to keep us occupied,
we have given them 30 days and they dont want to do a thing for the peaple they have griefedn

Ralh is lying his IP was removed a day after it was posted besides he admitted it was a proxy, which he had to use because unless his IP address has actually changed he was banned or suspended from here a long time ago for his disruptive behavior and his rants.
he is playing the sympathy card, pure and simple.

keep all operatives in the EP (region) and in the Purified lands forum for observation,

if you are banned go to The Confederated East Pacific, drop UN make a new one and secret it into the EP.

that is all I have for now.

I will wait for the Empires counter proposal, to be fair.

Is their a way we can get a functional government going also before I exit the talks? So that we can have a somewhat of a direction to where we are going, Officially, since I speak for a government that does not quite exist yet.

True, and good point I thaught they had already made their proposal, as for government I think that the one Flem proposed was smashing.

I will have to agreed but with my own wording: it was radd. xD.

How should we continue in actually establishing it?

well we have The Confederated East Pac, and any agents in the normal EP should stay and osly come to the TCEP if they are booted, we will need a few propaganda officers to keep our message in the RMB too.

I’m for the forget the talks and bide our time option. So far the talks have been a sham and it’s clear nothing acceptable can be gained from it.

However, as I see it we would need friends from the outside, or even just some rival invadergame players to help us. There isn’t a lot we can do on our own; that’s why I think Loop’s role and his reputation is quite important.