[BILL] Resolution on Supporting TEAPOT

— Begin quote from ____

BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE EAST PACIFIC

SECTION I. CITATION
…1.1- This resolution shall be known and cited as the “Resolution on Supporting TEAPOT”.

SECTION II. FINDINGS
…2.1- NationStates introduced trading cards on April 1st 2018 and a community around trading cards has been developing within the East Pacific.
…2.2- A group of Citizens has established “The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders” (TEAPOT), which aims to promote and grow the card community within the East Pacific.

SECTION III. Resolutions
…3.1- The Magisterium recommends the Executive to recognize and support TEAPOT as the only official regional trading cards organization, and the TEP administration team to provide TEAPOT with all necessary resources.

— End quote

[spoiler]
— Begin quote from ____

BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE EAST PACIFIC

SECTION I. CITATION

…1.1- This resolution shall be known and cited as the “Resolution on Supporting a Regional Card Organization”.

SECTION II. FINDINGS

…2.1- The Magisterium finds that:
……2.1.1- The government has an inherent duty to promote the communities active within the East Pacific…
……2.1.2- Since their introduction to NationStates on April 1st 2018, the trading card community has become a small yet active part of NationStates.
……2.1.3- A community around trading cards has been developing within the East Pacific since the introduction of cards to NationStates.
……2.1.4- There has been the creation of a group by private citizens known as “The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders”, or “the Association”, which aims to promote and grow the card community within the East Pacific.

SECTION III. RESOLVEMENTS

…3.1- It is recommended that the Association be considered as a separate entity from the government of the East Pacific, albeit the Association should still follow the Concordat and all regional law.

…3.2- The Association is encouraged to outline its internal processes in a foundational document that should serve to guide Association functions.

…3.3- While the Association’s sovereignty is respected, the Magisterium recommends that the Association’s main goals should be to promote the usage of cards within the East Pacific as well as to teach interested residents how to get involved within cards.

…3.4- The Delegate and TEP Administration Team are encouraged to provide necessary resources the Association may need to complete its goals as recommended by the Magisterium, as well as any other reasonable goal set forth by the Association.

…3.5- It is recommended that the Delegate should, through executive policy, maintain the Association as the only government-sponsored card organization within the East Pacific.

— End quote

[/spoiler]

Resolution to make TEAPOT more government-supported. Please discuss.

As curator I like it.

I like the TEAPOT initiative. I like new proposals. I don’t (yet) like this draft resolution.

The ‘why’ isn’t clear to me. Why is this resolution needed? What problem does it attempt to solve?

Does the government have an “inherent duty to promote the communities active within the East Pacific”?

Next, the title seems to suggest the Magisterium would aim to ‘support’ ‘a Regional Card Association’. Is Regional (capitalized) Card (capitalized) Association (capitalized) some defined format or organization? Is it the same as TEAPOT? Or is it supposed to mean any regional card association?

None of the ‘resolvements’ (is that even a word? Only the urban dictionary seems to reference this, and that’s not much of a reference at all) talk about support.

  • Section 3.1 recommends that TEAPOT should not be considered part of the government, but TEP law applies. You don’t say?

  • Section 3.2 and 3.3 seem to be the Magisterium telling TEAPOT how to run things. That’s no support.

  • 3.4 and 3.5 are the only somewhat useful sections in this entire document, and ‘encourage’ and ‘recommend’ the TEP admin team and the Executive to respectively ‘provide resources’ and ‘maintain the Association as the only government-sponsored card organization within the East Pacific’.

  • TEAPOT seems to already have gotten the needed forums and discord facilities from Admin, so I’m not sure what further resources are required at this point.

  • The Executive can simply declare TEAPOT to be exclusively government-supported (whatever that would mean).

So again, why should we burden our - I dare say already rather complicated - body of law with this draft resolution?

— Begin quote from ____

Does the government have an “inherent duty to promote the communities active within the East Pacific”?

— End quote

Yes. The government is responsible for attempting to grow the region in all aspects, whether it be mere promoting or more heavy duty work such as cultural events. A government which fails to promote a region’s communities, and fails to provide support, is an inefficient and underworking government.

— Begin quote from ____

Next, the title seems to suggest the Magisterium would aim to ‘support’ ‘a Regional Card Association’. Is Regional (capitalized) Card (capitalized) Association (capitalized) some defined format or organization? Is it the same as TEAPOT? Or is it supposed to mean any regional card association?

— End quote

I’ll change the title to reflect the proposal specifying TEAPOT :stuck_out_tongue:

— Begin quote from ____

None of the ‘resolvements’ (is that even a word? Only the urban dictionary seems to reference this, and that’s not much of a reference at all) talk about support.

— End quote

Hm, yeah resolvements could be restated as Resolutions.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 3.1 recommends that TEAPOT should not be considered part of the government, but TEP law applies. You don’t say?

— End quote

:y Yeah I’ll simplify that.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 3.2 and 3.3 seem to be the Magisterium telling TEAPOT how to run things. That’s no support.

— End quote

I’ll remove this. This was probably something I left over when the resolution was focused on forming a card organization, not supporting a current one.

— Begin quote from ____

3.4 and 3.5 are the only somewhat useful sections in this entire document, and ‘encourage’ and ‘recommend’ the TEP admin team and the Executive to respectively ‘provide resources’ and ‘maintain the Association as the only government-sponsored card organization within the East Pacific’.

TEAPOT seems to already have gotten the needed forums and discord facilities from Admin, so I’m not sure what further resources are required at this point.

— End quote

True, but the resolution recommends prolonged support of the Association. Just because they have what they need now doesn’t mean they won’t need it in the future.

— Begin quote from ____

The Executive can simply declare TEAPOT to be exclusively government-supported (whatever that would mean).

— End quote

It means what it states; that TEAPOT should be the only institution supported by the government. Similarly to how EPSA is the sole regional military, TEAPOT will be the sole regional card organization (albeit, no government oversight like EPSA has).

As for Executive Policy, you know as well as I do that executive policy rarely lasts. All the Executive Orders since Yuno & before are no longer in effect, and the same will happen to our current policies eventually.

— Begin quote from ____

I like the TEAPOT initiative. I like new proposals. I don’t (yet) like this draft resolution.

The ‘why’ isn’t clear to me. Why is this resolution needed? What problem does it attempt to solve?

So again, why should we burden our - I dare say already rather complicated - body of law with this draft resolution?

— End quote

This resolution merely sets to give TEAPOT some form of support from the government. When the Association was founded, we decided to not go through executive policy (because again that stuff doesn’t last long) nor law (because TEAPOT should remain separate from government, so a law defeats that purpose and opens the doors to government intruding on TEAPOT).

A resolution was the go-between: an opinion showing strong support for TEAPOT’s formation, yet not-binding. Giving TEAPOT the legitimacy it needs without forcing it under the government.

It is true that despite this resolution, another card organization based around TEP’s card community may be formed. And the government can support said organization. However, Magisterium resolutions are often followed quite strictly, so the likely hood of that happening is low if this resolution passes.

I’ll make changes later, RN I have to go to class.

— Begin quote from ____

The government is responsible for attempting to grow the region in all aspects, whether it be mere promoting or more heavy duty work such as cultural events. A government which fails to promote a region’s communities, and fails to provide support, is an inefficient and underworking government.

— End quote

Attempting to grow is not the same as an “inherent duty”. In my view the government needs to provide a framework that allows the communities in TEP to thrive.

— Begin quote from ____

True, but the resolution recommends prolonged support of the Association. Just because they have what they need now doesn’t mean they won’t need it in the future.

— End quote

It just might be possible to legislate in the future.

— Begin quote from ____

It means what it states; that TEAPOT should be the only institution supported by the government. Similarly to how EPSA is the sole regional military, TEAPOT will be the sole regional card organization (albeit, no government oversight like EPSA has).

— End quote

So you want to block new card communities forming in TEP, monopolizing all card players in TEAPOT? Or at the very least, deprive others of government support? That seems to be a goal of this resolution, going off your latest statements. Are we sure that that is in TEP’s best interest?

— Begin quote from ____

As for Executive Policy, you know as well as I do that executive policy rarely lasts. All the Executive Orders since Yuno & before are no longer in effect, and the same will happen to our current policies eventually.

— End quote

A non-binding resolution shall have more force in law than a binding, albeit removable - aren’t resolutions removable? - executive order?

But as I said, I like TEAPOT and the initiative, so here goes, a counter-draft on your terms:

— Begin quote from ____

BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE EAST PACIFIC

SECTION I. CITATION
…1.1- This resolution shall be known and cited as the “Resolution on Supporting TEAPOT”.

SECTION II. FINDINGS
…2.1- NationStates introduced trading cards on April 1st 2018 and a community around trading cards has been developing within the East Pacific.
…2.2- A group of Citizens has established “The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders” (TEAPOT), which aims to promote and grow the card community within the East Pacific.

SECTION III. Resolutions
…3.1- The Magisterium recommends the Executive to recognize and support TEAPOT as the only official regional trading cards organization, and the TEP administration team to provide TEAPOT with all necessary resources.

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Attempting to grow is not the same as an “inherent duty”. In my view the government needs to provide a framework that allows the communities in TEP to thrive.

— End quote

True, better way to put it :stuck_out_tongue:

— Begin quote from ____

It just might be possible to legislate in the future.

— End quote

True

— Begin quote from ____

So you want to block new card communities forming in TEP, monopolizing all card players in TEAPOT? Or at the very least, deprive others of government support? That seems to be a goal of this resolution, going off your latest statements. Are we sure that that is in TEP’s best interest?

— End quote

Yes. Cards is its own sub-community at this point. Allowing other organizations to “compete” can cause fractionalism, just like what happened with Forum RP and RMB RP. So I do believe it is in TEP’s best interests.

— Begin quote from ____

A non-binding resolution shall have more force in law than a binding, albeit removable - aren’t resolutions removable? - executive order?

— End quote

Difference between resolutions and executive orders is that resolutions, once enacted, are only repealed when they are repealed.

Executive orders, on the other hand, often end up formally in effect however still not enforced anymore. Which is my point; giving support on an executive policy is bound for that policy to disappear one day much more easily than a resolution.

— Begin quote from ____

But as I said, I like TEAPOT and the initiative, so here goes, a counter-draft on your terms:

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE EAST PACIFIC

SECTION I. CITATION
…1.1- This resolution shall be known and cited as the “Resolution on Supporting TEAPOT”.

SECTION II. FINDINGS
…2.1- NationStates introduced trading cards on April 1st 2018 and a community around trading cards has been developing within the East Pacific.
…2.2- A group of Citizens has established “The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders” (TEAPOT), which aims to promote and grow the card community within the East Pacific.

SECTION III. Resolutions
…3.1- The Magisterium recommends the Executive to recognize and support TEAPOT as the only official regional trading cards organization, and the TEP administration team to provide TEAPOT with all necessary resources.

— End quote

Feels like a negotiation. :stuck_out_tongue:

But I accept your draft. Do you want to be co-sponsor (seeing as you literally rewritten the whole thing)

I motion this to vote.

Seconded.

Now, I haven’t been around here much, but it looks to me this bill is rushed into a vote. The debate concurred basically between two Magisters only (out of 20+), in a timespan of one day, and when there were no comments in the next three days, we suddenly get to vote on it. From my point of view (or better, my time zone), this was posted late on a Sunday evening close to midnight, and before the next Saturday morning it is at vote. So people who are mostly on-line during the weekend didn’t even had a chance to give their opinion. I understand the need to not let debate linger for weeks, but this is absurd.

And what resolution is left to vote on?
One that is nothing more than just a recommendation to the Executive that they will not recognize any other cards organisation in TEP besides TEAPOT.
So, it’s just a recommendation, so the Executive can just ignore it.
Also, is the fear of another organisation legit? Do they have disgruntled members that will try to create their own group? Do we know other regions that have multiple card communities, competing each other? In other words, do we really need a law recommendation like this?
(In fact, do we need to make recommendations to the Executive at all? But that is not the discussion here, so I’ll just post it here as a side note. I’m not sure the Magisterium should be wasting its time on mere recommendations.)

And if we pass this resolution, are we going to create one for the first organisation of NationStates | Challenge as well? Or the first group of NationStates | News? Do we need something similar for the next big in-game game as well? Or for an upcoming association of issue-writers? Should we also write resolutions to recommend Executive to have our residents join only one certain faction during n-Day and z-Day and such?
I mean, if we start doing this, where will we end?

I largely agree with Bach’s  concerns. However, I believe the current proposal is just a compromise on his account. It doesn’t take away all the concerns raised. And most of all, it accomplishes nothing.

For all these reasons, and especially as there almost has not been any debate on this, I will vote against this.  …for now. And I would like to urge other Magisters to do likewise.

(And for the record: I am not against TEAPOT - I’m a member myself - nor against TEAPOT being the only card organisation. I just oppose how this debate was not held, how this resolution was rushed to vote, and I am wondering if the Magisterium should even be spending its time on giving such recommendations.)

— Begin quote from ____

Now, I haven’t been around here much, but it looks to me this bill is rushed into a vote. The debate concurred basically between two Magisters only (out of 20+), in a timespan of one day, and when there were no comments in the next three days, we suddenly get to vote on it. From my point of view (or better, my time zone), this was posted late on a Sunday evening close to midnight, and before the next Saturday morning it is at vote. So people who are mostly on-line during the weekend didn’t even had a chance to give their opinion. I understand the need to not let debate linger for weeks, but this is absurd.

And what resolution is left to vote on?
One that is nothing more than just a recommendation to the Executive that they will not recognize any other cards organisation in TEP besides TEAPOT.
So, it’s just a recommendation, so the Executive can just ignore it.
Also, is the fear of another organisation legit? Do they have disgruntled members that will try to create their own group? Do we know other regions that have multiple card communities, competing each other? In other words, do we really need a law recommendation like this?
(In fact, do we need to make recommendations to the Executive at all? But that is not the discussion here, so I’ll just post it here as a side note. I’m not sure the Magisterium should be wasting its time on mere recommendations.)

And if we pass this resolution, are we going to create one for the first organisation of NationStates | Challenge as well? Or the first group of NationStates | News? Do we need something similar for the next big in-game game as well? Or for an upcoming association of issue-writers? Should we also write resolutions to recommend Executive to have our residents join only one certain faction during n-Day and z-Day and such?
I mean, if we start doing this, where will we end?

I largely agree with Bach’s  concerns. However, I believe the current proposal is just a compromise on his account. It doesn’t take away all the concerns raised. And most of all, it accomplishes nothing.

For all these reasons, and especially as there almost has not been any debate on this, I will vote against this.  …for now. And I would like to urge other Magisters to do likewise.

(And for the record: I am not against TEAPOT - I’m a member myself - nor against TEAPOT being the only card organisation. I just oppose how this debate was not held, how this resolution was rushed to vote, and I am wondering if the Magisterium should even be spending its time on giving such recommendations.)

— End quote

In this instance I agree, and where does one draw the line. I too will be voting against this as I have been offline over the last few days and this is the first time I’m seeing this thread.

— Begin quote from ____

Now, I haven’t been around here much, but it looks to me this bill is rushed into a vote. The debate concurred basically between two Magisters only (out of 20+), in a timespan of one day, and when there were no comments in the next three days, we suddenly get to vote on it. From my point of view (or better, my time zone), this was posted late on a Sunday evening close to midnight, and before the next Saturday morning it is at vote. So people who are mostly on-line during the weekend didn’t even had a chance to give their opinion. I understand the need to not let debate linger for weeks, but this is absurd.

And what resolution is left to vote on?
One that is nothing more than just a recommendation to the Executive that they will not recognize any other cards organisation in TEP besides TEAPOT.
So, it’s just a recommendation, so the Executive can just ignore it.
Also, is the fear of another organisation legit? Do they have disgruntled members that will try to create their own group? Do we know other regions that have multiple card communities, competing each other? In other words, do we really need a law recommendation like this?
(In fact, do we need to make recommendations to the Executive at all? But that is not the discussion here, so I’ll just post it here as a side note. I’m not sure the Magisterium should be wasting its time on mere recommendations.)

And if we pass this resolution, are we going to create one for the first organisation of NationStates | Challenge as well? Or the first group of NationStates | News? Do we need something similar for the next big in-game game as well? Or for an upcoming association of issue-writers? Should we also write resolutions to recommend Executive to have our residents join only one certain faction during n-Day and z-Day and such?
I mean, if we start doing this, where will we end?

I largely agree with Bach’s  concerns. However, I believe the current proposal is just a compromise on his account. It doesn’t take away all the concerns raised. And most of all, it accomplishes nothing.

For all these reasons, and especially as there almost has not been any debate on this, I will vote against this.  …for now. And I would like to urge other Magisters to do likewise.

(And for the record: I am not against TEAPOT - I’m a member myself - nor against TEAPOT being the only card organisation. I just oppose how this debate was not held, how this resolution was rushed to vote, and I am wondering if the Magisterium should even be spending its time on giving such recommendations.)

— End quote

Then it shall be a nay from me also.

— Begin quote from ____

Now, I haven’t been around here much, but it looks to me this bill is rushed into a vote. The debate concurred basically between two Magisters only (out of 20+), in a timespan of one day, and when there were no comments in the next three days, we suddenly get to vote on it. From my point of view (or better, my time zone), this was posted late on a Sunday evening close to midnight, and before the next Saturday morning it is at vote. So people who are mostly on-line during the weekend didn’t even had a chance to give their opinion. I understand the need to not let debate linger for weeks, but this is absurd.

— End quote

Apologies, but this resolution has been up for a while now. I admit my thought process excluded Magisters, and I’m sorry for that though. :confused:

My thought process was basically this:

  • This has been around in some form for months now, so people must have seen it.
  • We have two debates, on on Article F and one on EPSA, and if I move this to vote then I’ll free up Magister-thinkspace for those proposals.
  • This isn’t that big of a resolution, so surely no one would really care about it much, especially with Bach’s rewrite.

In hindsight, point 1 was stupid and unrealistic, and point 3 was also stupid and assuming too much. Thus, I apologize for my idiocy on this matter. However, I showed my thought process because (at the time) I thought I was being pragmatic. I wasn’t trying to slight you nor any of the other Magisters, but I did and I apologize for that profusely.

— Begin quote from ____

And what resolution is left to vote on?
One that is nothing more than just a recommendation to the Executive that they will not recognize any other cards organisation in TEP besides TEAPOT.
So, it’s just a recommendation, so the Executive can just ignore it.
Also, is the fear of another organisation legit? Do they have disgruntled members that will try to create their own group? Do we know other regions that have multiple card communities, competing each other? In other words, do we really need a law recommendation like this?
(In fact, do we need to make recommendations to the Executive at all? But that is not the discussion here, so I’ll just post it here as a side note. I’m not sure the Magisterium should be wasting its time on mere recommendations.)

— End quote

Resolutions are Magisterium opinions. So yes, they aren’t binding. That is what a resolution is. However, they are usually followed. Infact, if you look at our resolutions, the majority of them are followed in some shape or form to this day; including those from 2009. So it isn’t the most useless thing in the world.

I do believe a fear of another organization is unlikely. However, it is unlikely, not impossible. We have seen people try to build up private militaries in TEP, so its possible they may try to build up a card organization. This is mainly to give TEAPOT support as the overarching regional card-guild of TEP.

Its a resolution to give TEAPOT some form of legitimacy. I didn’t opt for a law, because I did not want to risk the government trying to gain more oversight of TEAPOT in the future. But if I left it to Executive policy, then support would eventually disappear as Executive policy is not the best recorded thing.

— Begin quote from ____

And if we pass this resolution, are we going to create one for the first organisation of challengers as well? Or the first group of providence trainers? Do we need something similar for the next big in-game game as well? Or for an upcoming association of issue-writers? Should we also write resolutions to recommend Executive to have our residents join only one certain faction during n-Day and z-Day and such?
I mean, if we start doing this, where will we end?

— End quote

This isn’t going to start a precedent. Cards has been a large growing part of the community in NS. Hell, they literally developed their own mini-language. TWP has an extensive guide on cards. People have been commended and condemned solely on cards. TNP has a cards guild.

Cards is not like challenges or April Fools events, which only last for one day. Nor is it like N-Day or Z-Day, which only lasts for two or three. Cards has been here for two or three years, and it has been growing. At this point, if we aren’t willing to support the community with “just a recommendation”, then what?

We’re already supporting RMB RP, which started three years ago, via the Bureau of Public Affairs. So why not support an organization for cards, albeit one that is separate from government oversight?

— Begin quote from ____

I largely agree with Bach’s  concerns. However, I believe the current proposal is just a compromise on his account. It doesn’t take away all the concerns raised. And most of all, it accomplishes nothing.

— End quote

Bach addressed all his concerns with the resolution.

— Begin quote from ____

For all these reasons, and especially as there almost has not been any debate on this, I will vote against this.  …for now. And I would like to urge other Magisters to do likewise.

(And for the record: I am not against TEAPOT - I’m a member myself - nor against TEAPOT being the only card organisation. I just oppose how this debate was not held, how this resolution was rushed to vote, and I am wondering if the Magisterium should even be spending its time on giving such recommendations.)

— End quote

Ultimately, I understand where I went wrong. I hope Magisters vote with their conscience, and I refuse to judge anyone who votes against due to the short debate time.

That being said, I believe this resolution is extremely important to help TEAPOT become more legitimate. Therefore, should the proposal fail due to the shortened debate, then I will re-propose it as it is, and this time be more grounded in reality; I’ll ping Magisters occasionally as I sometimes do and I’ll leave it up for a longer period of time.

I do want to make this clear that this was not an attempt of what I guess would be called “badge hunting” in the World Assembly, in which I’m trying to take fame for this proposal. Nor did I mean to offend all Magisters. This wasn’t done with malicious intent.

That being said, I apologize for trying to bypass the Magisterium and rushing this bill to vote. I will try to avoid doing this again in the future.

Well, this has already been motioned to vote and probably it’s too late to state my thoughts here, but Zuk personally encouraged me to do so.

I see points for which I could vote for or against. I don’t know much about TEAPOT aside from the basic, but it definitely is a well established community in TEP and is the only organisation right now of that kind, so it has all reasons to be supported by official institutions. But if this is done to prevent a conflict like the past RMB vs Forum, then I don’t really see a problem because that’s not the situation right now. I get the point, but I don’t see it really necessary? And I’m also aware that this could lead to more and more regulations by the Magisterium. So, what to say? Few Magis have given an opinion, and I think as VW that this should have waited more or, at least, until more people had given their opinion

— Begin quote from ____

Well, this has already been motioned to vote and probably it’s too late to state my thoughts here, but Zuk personally encouraged me to do so.

— End quote

All Magisters should post their thoughts. More opinions are better!

— Begin quote from ____

I see points for which I could vote for or against. I don’t know much about TEAPOT aside from the basic, but it definitely is a well established community in TEP and is the only organisation right now of that kind, so it has all reasons to be supported by official institutions. But if this is done to prevent a conflict like the past RMB vs Forum, then I don’t really see a problem because that’s not the situation right now. I get the point, but I don’t see it really necessary?

— End quote

Kinda hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. While I do believe it prevents factionalism like RMB v. Forum, the primary reason is to simply support TEAPOT. That’s it. That’s been the goal since I proposed this idea back when TEAPOT was being formed.

— Begin quote from ____

And I’m also aware that this could lead to more and more regulations by the Magisterium.

— End quote

I disagree on this point. I will also point out that I have brought this proposal to TEAPOT, and a lot of Curators agreed with it. So, while this is an independent venture by me, it is supported by some if not all TEAPOT members.

— Begin quote from ____

So, what to say? Few Magis have given an opinion, and I think as VW that this should have waited more or, at least, until more people had given their opinion

— End quote

Again, sorry for rushing.

Thank you for your opinions! Feel free to respond, if you want. :stuck_out_tongue:

I abstained, but only because with all this uncertainty among the Magisterium and with me not being any part of any of the debate, I could not in good conscience support or oppose such a contested resolution.

I completely share Aivintis’ opinion.

I understand the resolution already passed, and I’m not a Magister anymore. But as an avid card collector and as a TEAPOT curator I feel the need to respond to some of the arguments raised.

— Begin quote from ____

And what resolution is left to vote on?
One that is nothing more than just a recommendation to the Executive that they will not recognize any other cards organisation in TEP besides TEAPOT.
So, it’s just a recommendation, so the Executive can just ignore it.

— End quote

So? Why do we pass resolutions then? If TEAPOT is truly the self-governing, independent body it yearns to be, then it has to decide what it wants to be without the Magisterium micromanaging it. TEAPOT could also be another Ministry, or maybe a subsection of Culture. We could amend the Curia to include cards. But as people who enjoy cards, we wanted to have it somewhat independent of the Executive as a whole. If the Executive ignores it? Well, that’s pretty mean. But we already have our own subforum and our discord channel. Not much the Executive can really do, except ban cards altogether. So I don’t think the resolution really needs much than to state its existence and give its ‘recommendation.’ (although I note in your next paragraph you sneakily mentioned that you don’t like the ‘recommendations,’ anyway)

— Begin quote from ____

Also, is the fear of another organisation legit? Do they have disgruntled members that will try to create their own group? Do we know other regions that have multiple card communities, competing each other? In other words, do we really need a law recommendation like this?

— End quote

You could look at the independent roleplay sectors and newspapers that individual members of TEP have created. I think that that’s a good thing, especially since it means players have a variety of choice and can be really passionate about what they do. I don’t think if it’s the same for cards. Suppose a rival cards organization takes hold in The East Pacific. It could cause disunity and fracture the cards community until the cards game isn’t fun anymore for players. It would also safeguard against other regions attempting to poach our players for their own cards organization.

The same logic applies to the EPSA, and why they’re the officially sanctioned military of The East Pacific. Sure, citizens can join other ones. But we have our own because we want to foster activity in R/D for TEP and attract our players who would be interested.

— Begin quote from ____

And if we pass this resolution, are we going to create one for the first organisation of NationStates | Challenge as well? Or the first group of NationStates | News? Do we need something similar for the next big in-game game as well? Or for an upcoming association of issue-writers? Should we also write resolutions to recommend Executive to have our residents join only one certain faction during n-Day and z-Day and such?
I mean, if we start doing this, where will we end?

— End quote

…is that bad?

ngl, I find the idea of a challenge guild interesting. I also forgot about Providence but who knows? Someone could try and optimize it. And I would What are Issues and Why do they Matter? - The East Pacific - Tapatalk to see a NationStates | Dispatch | The University of the East Pacific Presents: The East Pacific 1st Annual Issues Drive! of issue writers in The East Pacific. Sadly, it’s not too popular among TEPers.

But the comparisons aren’t really justified. The cards minigame was very, very popular. After the initial April Fools’ run, it was brought back a few months later because people really loved it. Changes were made to make the game more balanced and fun for players. There’s even a second season (and a rumored third season this year?) of the cards. The NationStates | The East Pacific | Most Valuable International Artwork stat was created because so many people played the game and so they were awarded for their achievement. Players were commended and condemned in the WA Security Council for their work in cards. Issue authors have also been commended and condemned. But the difference there is issue authoring is more about service to the game and not really a minigame in and of itself.

Is it wrong for a region to foster activity among players? Especially when NS is the multi-faceted game it is with the amount of things you can do? Again, is it bad to appeal to players who want to play NS in a specific way? You don’t have to answer issues, you don’t have to join the WA, you don’t have to become a citizen, you don’t have to join the government, you don’t have to debate WA proposals, you don’t have to argue about politics online, you don’t have to write issues, and you don’t have to collect cards. Scandalous, I know. But players will play because they want to, and I think the region’s role is to help them find that.

This is why I kinda admire the North Pacific’s card program. Like many things, they’ve used it to assert their dominance in that part of the game. They probably could have ignored it and focused on other things. But they’ve built this massive program that is easily the largest one in the minigame. It’s also why I believe that TEP should try to encourage cards among its nations with its own program, or whatever it ultimately decides to do. TEP also fosters roleplay, government, R/D, and the WA for those players. Does there need to be a line in the sand for how TEP engages with April Fool’s minigames and such?

As for a hypothetical resolution concerning N-Day or Z-Day, we can say all we like but there will always be people who go against the regional faction. That said, it would look really well for TEP if we accomplish top spots for those.

— Begin quote from ____

I largely agree with Bach’s concerns. However, I believe the current proposal is just a compromise on his account. It doesn’t take away all the concerns raised. And most of all, it accomplishes nothing.

For all these reasons, and especially as there almost has not been any debate on this, I will vote against this. …for now. And I would like to urge other Magisters to do likewise.

(And for the record: I am not against TEAPOT - I’m a member myself - nor against TEAPOT being the only card organisation. I just oppose how this debate was not held, how this resolution was rushed to vote, and I am wondering if the Magisterium should even be spending its time on giving such recommendations.)

— End quote

Then were you just playing devil’s advocate? I know we’re getting into procedure here but there clearly was debate between Bach and Zuk. There were also opportunities for others to chime in. Whether the three days between the final change in the law and the motioning to vote was too quick, whatever. But are you really just protesting against procedure given a lot of the arguments were not procedural but about whether TEAPOT deserves recognition by the Magisterium?