[BILL - VOTED] The Regional Officers Act

Atlae · November 8, 2019, 5:44am

In previous administrations, the Delegate appointed the Polls authority to active RMBers/residents, who were sometimes not citizens. This shows a loophole: “Non-Vizier Officers” currently refers to citizens as defined by the Concordat, which means that residents promoted to the Regional Officer position would not be covered by the same restrictions and thus would not have to be confirmed by vote. From my perspective, this is more of a security threat than appointing a citizen to an RO spot, someone we most likely trust, rather than some resident we may not know and be a foreign sleeper. (Especially if they’re given Border Control for some odd reason.)

In addition, just having “New Delegate” as an RO title for a Delegate seems rather boring, especially if the Delegate has a certain theme or personality going on. Furthermore, the longest TEP delegate was Gnidrah who served 800+ days. Referring to them to “New Delegate” seems rather odd, albeit those were the days before elections. Still, it may seem weird with two or three-term delegates who have won re-election as incumbents but are still referred to as “New Delegate.”

Terms like “Vizier” and “Delegate” are proper nouns and need to be properly capitalized throughout. 😝 4.b and 4.g, namely.

Todd_McCloud · November 9, 2019, 5:31pm

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…(iii) If appointment fails, the Delegate may amend the Regional Officer position(s) requested and/or citizen.

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Can you clarify what this means? The language seems a bit confusing to me.

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SECTION V. ENACTMENT.

(b) All Non-Vizier Officer citizens will be subjected to a vote as outlined in Section IV, c. If after five calendar days the position remains unconfirmed, the Non-Vizier Officer citizen will be dismissed and the Regional Officer position will be removed. Procedure outlined in Section IV, c may be followed thereafter.

— End quote

A Magisterium vote is a week, so what’s the reasoning behind giving five calender days for a vote? This is also in addition to a debate that requires 48 hours before a motion to vote can be called as well.

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I clarified IV(c)(iii) - check to see if that works.
I was trying to find a way to speed up the process. If we want to do a week, I’m fine with that.

Todd_McCloud · November 9, 2019, 5:33pm

I personally believe RO’s should be citizens. We saw during the last regime how wanton a delegate could be in appointing or dismissing RO’s.

This resolution needs provisions if the delegate dismisses an RO when they are not supposed to, appoints someone illegally, and so on. Would anyone like to add that to this resolution?

Atlae · November 9, 2019, 10:09pm

I don’t think anything currently defines ROs to be citizens. The vote that applies to Non-Vizier Officers is for citizens, so there is still a possibility of the Delegate appointing a non-citizen to circumvent this.

Furthermore, this is a resolution? Really reads like a law to me.

Todd_McCloud · November 10, 2019, 1:40pm

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I don’t think anything currently defines ROs to be citizens. The vote that applies to Non-Vizier Officers is for citizens, so there is still a possibility of the Delegate appointing a non-citizen to circumvent this.

Furthermore, this is a resolution? Really reads like a law to me.

— End quote

I added the provision for RO’s being citizens in the definition III-5, for that clarification.
And I think this is a law.

Zukchiva · November 10, 2019, 7:29pm

— Begin quote from ____

…(iii) If appointment fails, the Delegate may amend the Regional Officer position(s) requested and/or citizen.

— End quote

Can you clarify what this means? The language seems a bit confusing to me.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION V. ENACTMENT.

(b) All Non-Vizier Officer citizens will be subjected to a vote as outlined in Section IV, c. If after five calendar days the position remains unconfirmed, the Non-Vizier Officer citizen will be dismissed and the Regional Officer position will be removed. Procedure outlined in Section IV, c may be followed thereafter.

— End quote

A Magisterium vote is a week, so what’s the reasoning behind giving five calender days for a vote? This is also in addition to a debate that requires 48 hours before a motion to vote can be called as well.

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I clarified IV(c)(iii) - check to see if that works.
I was trying to find a way to speed up the process. If we want to do a week, I’m fine with that.

— End quote

I think it works, though the and/or citizen part is still a bit confusing to me.
I understand trying to speed up the process, but as of rn it’s effectively saying all Non-Vizier ROs will loose their slots. Because statistically speaking, the Magisterium requires 48 hours of debate before putting legislation to vote (though unsure if that counts towards nominations), and then I would assume that a normal one-week vote would have to resume. And given that it has been rare ever since I joined TEP for the Magi’s votes to end before the week is up, we’re looking at a total of nine to ten days for ROs to be properly confirmed.
However, I may be reading it wrong?

Gorundu · November 11, 2019, 9:06am

A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

Libertanny · November 13, 2019, 10:14pm

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A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

— End quote

I have to say, I do not agree with your views. Especially with the last sentence - we have seen Delegates (not only Fedele) appointing ROs without a bigger thought - we have had ROs appointed for fun, for no apparent reason or for criminal reasons. We also used to have a lot of inactive ROs back then. I believe this Act to be sensible. Also, such movement will make it clear, whether any future Delegate is going to coup or not. If they appoint an RO with BC without Magisterium’s approval, we will get a signal to act against possible coup. So this RO Act not only provides a helpful advice to the Delegate, but it is also an act, that boost security.

Gorundu · November 15, 2019, 10:05am

— Begin quote from ____

A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

— End quote

I have to say, I do not agree with your views. Especially with the last sentence - we have seen Delegates (not only Fedele) appointing ROs without a bigger thought - we have had ROs appointed for fun, for no apparent reason or for criminal reasons. We also used to have a lot of inactive ROs back then. I believe this Act to be sensible. Also, such movement will make it clear, whether any future Delegate is going to coup or not. If they appoint an RO with BC without Magisterium’s approval, we will get a signal to act against possible coup. So this RO Act not only provides a helpful advice to the Delegate, but it is also an act, that boost security.

— End quote

If you read my proposal carefully, you’d notice that I did not propose to allow ROs to be appointed immediately. Rather, I said the Magisterium must be informed first of a proposal, which they could choose to act on. If, for example, a Delegate is appointing a legitimate RO due to their position as a Minister, then presumably no Magister would have objections. If during a set time, no objection is made, then the Delegate can proceed with the appointment after the time expires, without a vote necessary. If a proposed appointment is seen as fishy in any way, then Magisters can motion to block it, and say, if 2 of them motions, then a full vote would have to be held. This removes a cumbersome process for completely routine appointments, while placing a check on not-so-routine ones.

Zukchiva · November 15, 2019, 11:53pm

— Begin quote from ____

A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

— End quote

I have to say, I do not agree with your views. Especially with the last sentence - we have seen Delegates (not only Fedele) appointing ROs without a bigger thought - we have had ROs appointed for fun, for no apparent reason or for criminal reasons. We also used to have a lot of inactive ROs back then. I believe this Act to be sensible. Also, such movement will make it clear, whether any future Delegate is going to coup or not. If they appoint an RO with BC without Magisterium’s approval, we will get a signal to act against possible coup. So this RO Act not only provides a helpful advice to the Delegate, but it is also an act, that boost security.

If you read my proposal carefully, you’d notice that I did not propose to allow ROs to be appointed immediately. Rather, I said the Magisterium must be informed first of a proposal, which they could choose to act on. If, for example, a Delegate is appointing a legitimate RO due to their position as a Minister, then presumably no Magister would have objections. If during a set time, no objection is made, then the Delegate can proceed with the appointment after the time expires, without a vote necessary. If a proposed appointment is seen as fishy in any way, then Magisters can motion to block it, and say, if 2 of them motions, then a full vote would have to be held. This removes a cumbersome process for completely routine appointments, while placing a check on not-so-routine ones.

— End quote

What if two Magisters oppose all RO appointments to show them some love by giving them a vote?

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Gorundu · November 16, 2019, 11:36am

— Begin quote from ____

A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

— End quote

I have to say, I do not agree with your views. Especially with the last sentence - we have seen Delegates (not only Fedele) appointing ROs without a bigger thought - we have had ROs appointed for fun, for no apparent reason or for criminal reasons. We also used to have a lot of inactive ROs back then. I believe this Act to be sensible. Also, such movement will make it clear, whether any future Delegate is going to coup or not. If they appoint an RO with BC without Magisterium’s approval, we will get a signal to act against possible coup. So this RO Act not only provides a helpful advice to the Delegate, but it is also an act, that boost security.

If you read my proposal carefully, you’d notice that I did not propose to allow ROs to be appointed immediately. Rather, I said the Magisterium must be informed first of a proposal, which they could choose to act on. If, for example, a Delegate is appointing a legitimate RO due to their position as a Minister, then presumably no Magister would have objections. If during a set time, no objection is made, then the Delegate can proceed with the appointment after the time expires, without a vote necessary. If a proposed appointment is seen as fishy in any way, then Magisters can motion to block it, and say, if 2 of them motions, then a full vote would have to be held. This removes a cumbersome process for completely routine appointments, while placing a check on not-so-routine ones.

What if two Magisters oppose all RO appointments to show them some love by giving them a vote?

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— End quote

If they decide that’s a good idea then ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Keep in mind I just made up the number 2 as an example, perhaps another number is better.

Zukchiva · November 16, 2019, 12:39pm

— Begin quote from ____

A suggestion of mine would be, that instead of voting on every single appointment, the Delegate still informs the Magisterium on the appointments, and if the Magisterium doesn’t act on it within a certain timeframe, the RO may be appointed, but if a motion is started objecting to the appointment, then the Delegate has to wait until the Magisterium votes on it. This would make the process less cumbersome, since presumably most Delegates are responsible enough to appoint good people to RO positions.

— End quote

I have to say, I do not agree with your views. Especially with the last sentence - we have seen Delegates (not only Fedele) appointing ROs without a bigger thought - we have had ROs appointed for fun, for no apparent reason or for criminal reasons. We also used to have a lot of inactive ROs back then. I believe this Act to be sensible. Also, such movement will make it clear, whether any future Delegate is going to coup or not. If they appoint an RO with BC without Magisterium’s approval, we will get a signal to act against possible coup. So this RO Act not only provides a helpful advice to the Delegate, but it is also an act, that boost security.

If you read my proposal carefully, you’d notice that I did not propose to allow ROs to be appointed immediately. Rather, I said the Magisterium must be informed first of a proposal, which they could choose to act on. If, for example, a Delegate is appointing a legitimate RO due to their position as a Minister, then presumably no Magister would have objections. If during a set time, no objection is made, then the Delegate can proceed with the appointment after the time expires, without a vote necessary. If a proposed appointment is seen as fishy in any way, then Magisters can motion to block it, and say, if 2 of them motions, then a full vote would have to be held. This removes a cumbersome process for completely routine appointments, while placing a check on not-so-routine ones.

What if two Magisters oppose all RO appointments to show them some love by giving them a vote?

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

If they decide that’s a good idea then ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Keep in mind I just made up the number 2 as an example, perhaps another number is better.

— End quote

Maybe it could be more like a thread for debate will be created, and should a quarter or more of the Magisterium object, a vote will be initiated?

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Gorundu · November 17, 2019, 2:08am

— Begin quote from ____

Maybe it could be more like a thread for debate will be created, and should a quarter or more of the Magisterium object, a vote will be initiated?

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— End quote

Sounds like a good idea. A proportion rather than a hard number would make more sense.

Bachtendekuppen · December 9, 2019, 4:36pm

Where are we at here? Will the sponsor make any more changes, or is the draft final?

Todd_McCloud · December 9, 2019, 7:14pm

I personally have nothing further to add or detract.

Zukchiva · December 16, 2019, 6:47pm

Then could this be motioned to vote? It seems all ideas have been considered.

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Ramaeus · December 16, 2019, 7:44pm

Sure, I’ll motion it.

Rage_Mage · December 17, 2019, 6:37pm

This seems like a good idea to be thinking about. The way we vote people into positions of power must be as fair and safe as possible. Otherwise we will have another Fedele coup on our hands.

Tretrid · December 18, 2019, 10:56pm

Seconded.

Mangegneithe · December 21, 2019, 1:41am

I agree that Regional Officers should be overviewed by the Magisterium, but I also believe that the executive branch should enclose specific authorities to specific Ministers as part of the position. Sure, this should be reviewed and approved by the Magisterium, but having to submit a new request for an RO position every time a new minister is appointed seems tedious at best. Apologies if this is addressed in the bill, I might have accidentally skipped over it, since I was reading rather fast.