The future of administration for TEP

Tales from the Crypt Help/Technical Center Completed Requests
1

It has came to my attention over the past week that as this community continues to grow we are at a sore disadvantage in comparison to other GCRs in the realm of administrative response. As a member of the Citizenship Commission as well as the Foreign Affairs ministry, the relatively simple process of approving applications for new citizens and for that of diplomatic envoys from various regions – including sister GCRs – has experienced a major backlog that is, in my opinion, unprecedented. The current Delegacy and Executive have ambitious plans to help grow TEP’s influence both domestically and abroad. We expect to see a further increase in both of these fields. The administrative team is a vital link in the chain to success for our region, and as of late it has been keeping the community back. Now, I am not here to gripe and complain about what has been happening, as I know that real life and other responsibilities tie people up. I am here to propose a solution for the future. We have members of this community who are incredibly active, dedicated, and most importantly, trustworthy. Let them help with administrative duties so that we can continue to grow in harmony.

Further, I would like to open a serious discussion about this topic. How does TEP decide who it’s admins are? What merits an individual the responsibility of being an admin or staff member for The East Pacific? As we grow further in size as well as activity, these are serious questions that we will need to have answers for.

2

100% open to the idea and hope the admin team will consider adding more admins. We desperately need this and I can think of many candidates who are trustworthy, experienced, active, willing to put in the work, and loyal to TEP.

3

I think for starters it would be nice for folks to be more transparent with these issues and what’s been going on. As a regional officer and one who likes to do his part within the community, it’s quite irritating to see events and drama like this unfold with no sort of understanding on the matter. I’m more than willing to do what I can to help in times of disarray, but I need to have a solid understand of the issues beforehand. The higher ups within the region should seek to take advantage of the staff (of whatever administrative level) for situations like this so we don’t succumb to such discord.

It always seems to be like the administration (or cabinet in general) is fractured, as there exists certain cliques that relay certain information far more effectively amongst one another that leaves those of us absent from such group in a state of confusion. I can’t help that there have been relationships built upon over the course of years within the region, and I don’t expect people to treat others equally as that’s just not how people work. I do, however, expect administrators, officers, or delegates to act with a certain tier of professionalism where, as I mentioned before, everyone is informed and called upon properly, appropriately, and immediately. We cannot claim to be a region that seeks to perhaps one day become the greatest, most populous with such attitudes.

In conclusion, I’d also like to throw my support in to the concluding lines of the original post, particularly in the sense of administrator definition, responsibility, and accountability. Such muddles need to be evaluated and explained, and they can’t be treated like expected byproducts of the growing pains of our great region. I cannot emphasize enough that unity, clarity, and responsibility only grow to be more and more integral to the success of the region as it continues along this growing trajectory.

4

(I’m not aware of the drama mentioned above and I freely admit that I have been very swamped this last week or two and haven’t followed through on what I’ve said I’d do. I can offer some reasons in mitigation but that’s not the point of this thread.

That said, I’m more than happy to support any viable candidates for admin, I’ve never said anything on this topic as I’ve never felt it was my place.)

5

Personally, I’d be in favor of first starting with adding more forum/global moderators before admin. This would allow people to be able to moderate areas of the forum without having access to admin CP. Unless this forum works differently than zetaboard :stuck_out_tongue:

In regards to how to choose, usually the forum admin team decides this, but it would probably make sense to have specific roles/titles/responsibilities tied to having this power. This would allow for accountability and ensure there aren’t inactive mods around for a long time.

6

Hello group,

Speaking as myself, I know we generally tend to add in administrators and moderators where there is a need. I know it’s fast approaching the holidays, but after noticing the girth of citizenship apps, and realizing that our large region could use some help in the form of handy, we are currently discussing this and some options we have.

7

Hi, don’t take this as a official response but here’s a few thoughts;

[ul]
[li]TEP Doesn’t have many admins. This is for a few reasons; A) We are handing every admin the keys to the castle. Zeta isn’t exactly known for proactive backups and as long as we’re on Zeta and not a 3rd service any admin decision (i.e, deletions) is potentially permanent. B) There are technical skills involved, for example, I would make the argument myself and EM are moreso administrators for technical know-how than exacting day-to-day administrative decisions. Even for the base administrator, a somewhat acute knowledge of IP protocol, browser system identification, and a few other factors we consider when looking at potential multi-citizens is required for, say, someone to mask citizens.
[li]I would disagree with TEP’s admin team not being a ‘team’, or of there being cliques at play. We do have our own Skype chat and keep ourselves aware of events, the problem stems from many of us administrators are in our 4th, 5th, 10th, even 15th year of the game and are either burnt out or are moving on with our lives while a majority of TEP’s userbase is high school/college kids. This is absolutely fine as this has always been the userbase and I myself joined when I was in high school, but this usually isn’t the best group to pull from for competent administrators. There are absolutely exemptions and fabulous people of this age group but you get the idea.
[li]Our process is usually pretty transparent, and we pick people off of merit and ability. There’s not a application but I can assure there’s a healthy discussion in picking any moderator/administrator.
[/li][/ul]

So, we face a few potential solutions, as what seems the primary concern here is Citizenship processing speed:
[ul]
[li]Give citizen apps, for example, back entirely to Moderators. The issue here is Moderators don’t have access to things like cross-checking IP’s for multi citizens, so this can potentially be a security issue.
[li]Hire more admins - but this comes with the issue of do we as a community trust these people with being admins. This has always been a difficult decision for us as a team because, as mentioned, there often is no “Undo” action if a administrator decides to go on a forum destruction spree at 3am. This is unfortunately a byproduct of being shackled to Zetaboards.
[li]Work out a entirely different citizenship system entirely with less administrator involvement.
[/li][/ul]

8

— Begin quote from ____

So, we face a few potential solutions, as what seems the primary concern here is Citizenship processing speed:

  • Give citizen apps, for example, back entirely to Moderators. The issue here is Moderators don’t have access to things like cross-checking IP’s for multi citizens, so this can potentially be a security issue.

— End quote

I have an idea that can help with this: Admin Assistants which can be added via the ACP and can cross check IPs.

9

I 100% trust active people who have been in TEP for years. If you hire someone, rest assured they are not going to blow up the forum at 3am. If you think that of everyone, you will never get another admin when you burn out and work 24/7 full time job and nothing gets done.

here’s a non-government perspective from my experiences in the roleplay community here: it’s a total setback towards the roleplayers too, noobs apply for a map claim but then have to wait almost a week or longer for their citizen masking before they can start roleplaying. By that time they are GONE.

Furthermore, former TEP delegate Xoriet herself told me years ago that the Citizenship commission was able to mask citizens. This is no longer the case, but it’s slowed down everything. This excruciatingly slow bureaucracy is insane.

Secondly, it’s not like citizens are legislators. Magisters vote on legislation, not citizens. Citizens may participate in the delegate vote, but firstly, we always do an activity/nation-alive checker before elections that citizens partake in. Citizens who had their nation ceased to exist will get their citizenship masking stripped.

There is virtually no drawback to adding more admin staff other than this is what TEP needs.

Lastly, no one is is asking you to hire some idiot. Hire someone who knows how to perform basic IP checks, which mainly really consists of copying and pasting someone’s IP into an online IP checker to make sure it’s an private home IP address.

10

Let me just say this: every admin is an adult, and we are all quite busy outside of NS.

That being said, you are free to poke one of the admins (either via private message or a general @) in order to expedite the process. There has not, to my knowledge, been any fiat stating otherwise.

11

— Begin quote from ____

I 100% trust active people who have been in TEP for years. If you hire someone, rest assured they are not going to blow up the forum at 3am. If you think that of everyone, you will never get another admin when you burn out and work 24/7 full time job and nothing gets done.

— End quote

Except people have just not on such a large scale due to limited access. See BGP. I cite TSP and Osiris as other examples.

— Begin quote from ____

here’s a non-government perspective from my experiences in the roleplay community here: it’s a total setback towards the roleplayers too, noobs apply for a map claim but then have to wait almost a week or longer for their citizen masking before they can start roleplaying. By that time they are GONE.

— End quote

Is there something requiring citizenship to RP? If so, does that mean Pax is banned?

— Begin quote from ____

Furthermore, former TEP delegate Xoriet herself told me years ago that the Citizenship commission was able to mask citizens. This is no longer the case, but it’s slowed down everything. This excruciatingly slow bureaucracy is insane.

— End quote

This was changed at the request of the community if I recall. It’s probably legislation somewhere to be honest.

edit: the http://forum.theeastpacific.com/topic/7001895/1/#new doesn’t directly force checks but does indirectly place responsibility on prohibiting multi citizens on the Admin team. I would wager specific intrusive checks by admin dates back to Citcomm at least.

— Begin quote from ____

Secondly, it’s not like citizens are legislators. Magisters vote on legislation, not citizens. Citizens may participate in the delegate vote, but firstly, we always do an activity/nation-alive checker before elections that citizens partake in. Citizens who had their nation ceased to exist will get their citizenship masking stripped.

— End quote

If that’s what the region wants then so be it, but I am still almost certain these checks are defined in some kind of legislation.

— Begin quote from ____

There is virtually no drawback to adding more admin staff other than this is what TEP needs.

— End quote

see previous points.

— Begin quote from ____

Lastly, no one is is asking you to hire some idiot. Hire someone who knows how to perform basic IP checks, which mainly really consists of copying and pasting someone’s IP into an online IP checker to make sure it’s an private home IP address.

— End quote

this is being looked into

12

— Begin quote from ____

Let me just say this: every admin is an adult, and we are all quite busy outside of NS.

That being said, you are free to poke one of the admins (either via private message or a general @) in order to expedite the process. There has not, to my knowledge, been any fiat stating otherwise.

— End quote

When someone other than me does it, it doesn’t tend to work. I’ve been told this/received complaints about it from the other ministries. I’m also an adult and busy outside of NS (mainly THIS week).

13

— Begin quote from ____

— Begin quote from ____

I 100% trust active people who have been in TEP for years. If you hire someone, rest assured they are not going to blow up the forum at 3am. If you think that of everyone, you will never get another admin when you burn out and work 24/7 full time job and nothing gets done.

— End quote

Except people have just not on such a large scale due to limited access. See BGP. I cite TSP and Osiris as other examples.

— Begin quote from ____

here’s a non-government perspective from my experiences in the roleplay community here: it’s a total setback towards the roleplayers too, noobs apply for a map claim but then have to wait almost a week or longer for their citizen masking before they can start roleplaying. By that time they are GONE.

— End quote

Is there something requiring citizenship to RP? If so, does that mean Pax is banned?

— Begin quote from ____

Furthermore, former TEP delegate Xoriet herself told me years ago that the Citizenship commission was able to mask citizens. This is no longer the case, but it’s slowed down everything. This excruciatingly slow bureaucracy is insane.

— End quote

This was changed at the request of the community if I recall. It’s probably legislation somewhere to be honest.

edit: the http://forum.theeastpacific.com/topic/7001895/1/#new doesn’t directly force checks but does indirectly place responsibility on prohibiting multi citizens on the Admin team. I would wager specific intrusive checks by admin dates back to Citcomm at least.

— Begin quote from ____

Secondly, it’s not like citizens are legislators. Magisters vote on legislation, not citizens. Citizens may participate in the delegate vote, but firstly, we always do an activity/nation-alive checker before elections that citizens partake in. Citizens who had their nation ceased to exist will get their citizenship masking stripped.

— End quote

If that’s what the region wants then so be it, but I am still almost certain these checks are defined in some kind of legislation.

— Begin quote from ____

There is virtually no drawback to adding more admin staff other than this is what TEP needs.

— End quote

see previous points.

— Begin quote from ____

Lastly, no one is is asking you to hire some idiot. Hire someone who knows how to perform basic IP checks, which mainly really consists of copying and pasting someone’s IP into an online IP checker to make sure it’s an private home IP address.

— End quote

this is being looked into

— End quote

it is good to see this is being looked into. thanks!

14

— Begin quote from ____

That said, I’m more than happy to support any viable candidates for admin

— End quote

Okay, that is a good start, but we are also here to try and discover what constitutes as a “viable candidate”.

— Begin quote from ____

Personally, I’d be in favor of first starting with adding more forum/global moderators before admin. This would allow people to be able to moderate areas of the forum without having access to admin CP. Unless this forum works differently than zetaboard :stuck_out_tongue:

In regards to how to choose, usually the forum admin team decides this, but it would probably make sense to have specific roles/titles/responsibilities tied to having this power. This would allow for accountability and ensure there aren’t inactive mods around for a long time.

— End quote

Our main issue, in my opinion, is not really needing more overall admins, it is that out of the admins we currently have only a few of them are actually active. I honestly believe that we should have a few of them step down from administrative duties if they are unable to fulfill basic tasks such as masking or editing forum headers from time to time. It is unfair to the community at-large and those members of the admin team who are active. I also do not believe that we should continue to perpetuate how admins are just mysteriously “chosen”. The process should be open, and based on merit. Being a forum admin is not an honorific position or title - but a job, one that is to be taken with a certain level of gravitas and care. Further, if an admin is not able to fulfill their duties they should step down and or be replaced. This only makes sense. I would like to hear more about the idea of attributing staff roles to specific positions within TEP and how they may help with the day to day operations of the region, though.

By the way, we already do have inactive mods that have been gone for quite some time now. This has not really changed anything though, it seems. This does however bring me to another point - http://forum.theeastpacific.com/stats/staff/. Why has it been removed from being accessible like normal? I don’t see any real reason for this. That page clearly demonstrates however that we have in-active forum mods which should be removed as well.

— Begin quote from ____

Hello group,

Speaking as myself, I know we generally tend to add in administrators and moderators where there is a need. I know it’s fast approaching the holidays, but after noticing the girth of citizenship apps, and realizing that our large region could use some help in the form of handy, we are currently discussing this and some options we have.

— End quote

Hey there Todd. One of the main reasons for this thread being a thing is seeing your plea for help in the mod/admin requests thread. I totally get you, and I want to thank you for helping get all of those processed and finished. Like I said previously, I honestly believe that this process needs to be more open. The deliberations need to be present in a publicly accessible, or community accessible area as it pertains to everyone here. I am not saying that every little detail discussed between admins needs to be aired, but when specifically speaking about potential candidates, and the need for new staff members - it should be made aware to the region.

— Begin quote from ____

Let me just say this: every admin is an adult, and we are all quite busy outside of NS.

— End quote

I would say that the majority of the people involved seriously within this region are adults, and a lot of us lead incredibly busy lives outside of NS as well. Admin or not. This does not however change the reality that NS is a 24/7 thing that will constantly be moving no matter what we say or do. The need for work pertaining to day-to-day operations being done is only going to increase as time goes on as well. So, despite us all being busy outside NS - there is work to do. Work that we signed up for. Let us get it done today for a brighter TEP tomorrow.

15

I figured it was fairly obvious what a viable candidate is. I’m generally pretty flexible when it comes to politics but Administration is a whole other ball game that I will not bend over, so consider this my criteria:

  1. Knowledgeable of the forum platform
    1a Knowledge of how forums work, administrative experience and other forum platform experience is a bonus
    1b Knowledge of how IP checks work, an understanding of why they are done and the time needed to do them.
    1c An understanding of how forum permissions work, including the inheritance system. Said system is facing an update in early 2018 to make it fit for purpose as it is not suited to the current use.

  2. Knowledge on how Zeta styles and themes is preferable, but not required.

  3. References. References from players of good character and standing with whom a current Administrator has a working relationship with, there needs to be an agreement that the candidate is trustworthy. *this is somewhat reliant on certain people here accepting my judgement on what equates a player of good standing and character.

  4. Be flexible, be a team player. I don’t want someone perfect, I want someone who is a human, who recognises their limits and is willing to speak up if they run into difficulty.

  5. An understanding of how security in NS works, how forum security works, what board integrity means and how Administrators have a duty in that regard.

Why is CitComm unable to mask citizens?
A: From what I am aware, they were able to use the AutoTools to mask citizens, but were unable to perform a full IP check (I did consider a way around that above) which has led to people like Frak, The Gemini and others being accepted and able to cause issues. If that means is to be returned, then a method of performing the necessary checks with auto-tool access must be accessible. If one is to be considered an Admin Assistant then they it means they’ll have access to the personal information, including email addresses of every forum user. This is not a step to be taken lightly.

16

— Begin quote from ____

I figured it was fairly obvious what a viable candidate is. I’m generally pretty flexible when it comes to politics but Administration is a whole other ball game that I will not bend over, so consider this my criteria:

  1. Knowledgeable of the forum platform
    1a Knowledge of how forums work, administrative experience and other forum platform experience is a bonus
    1b Knowledge of how IP checks work, an understanding of why they are done and the time needed to do them.
    1c An understanding of how forum permissions work, including the inheritance system. Said system is facing an update in early 2018 to make it fit for purpose as it is not suited to the current use.

  2. Knowledge on how Zeta styles and themes is preferable, but not required.

  3. References. References from players of good character and standing with whom a current Administrator has a working relationship with, there needs to be an agreement that the candidate is trustworthy. *this is somewhat reliant on certain people here accepting my judgement on what equates a player of good standing and character.

  4. Be flexible, be a team player. I don’t want someone perfect, I want someone who is a human, who recognises their limits and is willing to speak up if they run into difficulty.

  5. An understanding of how security in NS works, how forum security works, what board integrity means and how Administrators have a duty in that regard.

Why is CitComm unable to mask citizens?
A: From what I am aware, they were able to use the AutoTools to mask citizens, but were unable to perform a full IP check (I did consider a way around that above) which has led to people like Frak, The Gemini and others being accepted and able to cause issues. If that means is to be returned, then a method of performing the necessary checks with auto-tool access must be accessible. If one is to be considered an Admin Assistant then they it means they’ll have access to the personal information, including email addresses of every forum user. This is not a step to be taken lightly.

— End quote

I am glad that we now have something to work with. None of this information was made available anywhere as far as I can tell. Thank you! Knowing what is deemed necessary to help out is great. Now, is this just from your perspective or is it that of the entire admin team? Do you know if this varies among members at all? How does the process of selecting an admin candidate happen? What is involved?

Honestly, I just want to make everything run smoother around here. I see that we have obviously been having issues with masking citizens, ambassadors, and simple things like header adjustments. I understand the importance of personal information - especially within the confines of NS - and I respect restricting access to this information. I have experience in the past using auto-tools and honestly if we could just use those for citizens and ambassadors that would be great. I do not however like the prospect of potentially allowing malicious elements into our community and I agree that we would need something that is on-level security wise with what the admin team uses for IP verification.

I would be in favor of potentially making the current CitComm members Admin Assistants. I know that I am a member of this group but I will vouch for Grey and Verdrassil. I don’t believe Yuno or Aelitia needs such, to be honest. :stuck_out_tongue: I would also advocate for Wonder Woman being added to this because of her post as Minister of Immigration, however she has been absent as of late likely because of school or other real life stuff. Suffice to say, with a few admin assistants capable of helping ease the burden of masking we should be able to keep things running easier than at present.

17

I, in my short time in TEP, have noticed slow responses to citizen apps and seen other people who mentioned that their citizen apps took a really long time to complete. So, in my opinion, as long as the new admins are qualified, competent, loyal, and experienced, they should be alright.

To be more specific, I suggest a sort of application thread, much like we have for EPSA, the Magistry, and other various organizations. The requirements would be extremely strenuous and I suggest things like at least one year in the region, previous servitude in aspects of TEP, and various other things that I wouldn’t know about/am not qualified to suggest. The people who get accepted would be made partial admins or whatever TEP has, as I am ignorant of the exact forum structure that we have. Enough power to deal with the backlogs and busywork, but not enough to interfere with major aspects of the forum.

This idea is probably stupid, not thought out, and all around likely to lead to the destruction of the forums as we know them because I’m ignorant about the admin structure of the forums, the political/social dynamics of the forums, and the requirements of the platforms. Any thoughts, improvements, or ‘The Reason You Suck’ speeches?

18

— Begin quote from ____

I am glad that we now have something to work with. None of this information was made available anywhere as far as I can tell. Thank you! Knowing what is deemed necessary to help out is great. Now, is this just from your perspective or is it that of the entire admin team? Do you know if this varies among members at all? How does the process of selecting an admin candidate happen? What is involved?

— End quote

It’s public knowledge but you have to ask. We keep forum administration separate from the NS part so you wouldn’t find a post about it. That would also sum up the team. The process has evolved over the years but basically a topic is started in our private offices here on the forum or within our Skype chat. Some names are thrown out, we discuss what we feel is good or bad about the person and then we get a majority consensus among the team. Same process for any forum staff actually.

19

I may be a little out of touch since my return to the game, but I always felt it was a behind the scenes thing and all be it with some delays, got handled perfectly fine. Anyhow its good to see there’s a bit of information being revealed about the time.

20

Reading this post and the admins’ responses, it feels as if only Raven- thank you for laying the process out, by the way, that was informative- and Todd are being cooperative with our concerns as a community. I get people are busy and it’s difficult to trust people with such a large position that could potentially be fatal to the community, but I already know all this- all of us do. We don’t want our concerns to be met with excuses as to why we shouldn’t have them. We wish to discuss solutions and possible options that would work around the obvious obstacles you are met with as admins that also solve the frustrations that prevent our staff and community to grow effectively. All this being said, since there are so few active administrators that all find themselves busy with real life, those who are able in the community would like to help relieve some of that pressure and can, myself included with many others.

To address the options we do have, Raven mentioned “Admin Assistants which can be added via the ACP and can cross check IPs.” This would seem like the most viable option beyond a new admin so far and I really like this idea. As Hobbes voiced, security is a concern and this alternative seems to address it along with the backlog issue we’ve been having. Is this alternative being discussed among the administration, or? If so, it’d be great if we could get tidbits as to how the team as a whole feels about it being put in place.

Lastly, to address Morlock, that seems like an incredible idea, in my opinion, and would probably help you, as an administration team, organize such candidates while at the same time keeping the community in the loop. This would also help the community as a whole become aware and involved in the process, opening the possibility of having more educated candidates in the future. You guys may think the process is public knowledge, but the community has refuted that with Morlock and Pendragonania, both newer and older members of the region, not knowing how the process works as well as myself, Yuno, and Cain if we’re all asking about it. Of course, Morlock’s idea could be more restricted, as he mentioned, including a time requirement and possibly even questionings in private by all the administration staff, etc. I think his idea could be very effective and possible as do all the people who liked his post, lol. How does the administration team feel about it? I’d really like to hear your opinions on this also.