An Honest Debate: Simplifying the Citizenship Application

The Praesidium
1

I’m bringing this up because I no longer see a reason for parts of the citapp.

Currently, this is the citapp:

— Begin quote from ____

I, (nation name here), hereby ratify the Concordat of The East Pacific.

  1. The name of my NationStates nation within The East Pacific is:
  2. If I have one, the name of my World Assembly member nation is:
  3. List of all nations, names, aliases, and personas I go by in NationStates:
  4. My Discord name and ID number, if I have one, is:
  5. List of all organizations, regions, and entities I am currently involved with in NationStates:
  6. List of all organizations, regions, and entities I have been involved with previously within NationStates:
  7. I like to be contacted by a recruiter from the following internal organizations-  [sup]Say YES to all that apply[/sup]

  • The East Pacific Sovereign Army -

  • East Pacific Police Service -

  • Ministry of Foreign Affairs -

  • Ministry of Information and Communications -

  • Ministry of Culture -

  • Ministry of Immigration -

  • Ministry of World Assembly Affairs -

  • TEP Evolved Roleplay-

  • None, thank you -

I swear that I have been completely truthful in applying for citizenship within The East Pacific and that I have fully disclosed all information material to this application and its purposes. I swear my allegiance to The East Pacific leadership and citizens, and swear not to engage in hostilities against The East Pacific, the leadership of The East Pacific, and the Concordat of The East Pacific.

— End quote

I suggest simplifying it to this:

— Begin quote from ____

I, (insert the name of your nation in the East Pacific here), hereby ratify the Concordat of The East Pacific.

1.  If I have one, the name of my World Assembly member nation is:

2. List of all nations, names, aliases, and personas I go by in NationStates:

  1. My Discord name and ID number, if I have one, is:

  2. I would like to be contacted to join these organizations:

I swear that I have been completely truthful in applying for citizenship within The East Pacific and that I have fully disclosed all information material to this application and its purposes. I swear my allegiance to The East Pacific leadership and citizens, and swear not to engage in hostilities against The East Pacific, the leadership of The East Pacific, and the Concordat of The East Pacific.

— End quote

Along with a form somewhere right above the citapp:

— Begin quote from ____

This is a list of the East Pacific’s organizations. If you are interested in joining one or more organizations, please list the appropriate organization(s) within your answer for the fourth question on the citizenship application. If you are not interested in joining an organization, put “None” as your answer for the fourth question on the citizenship application.

  • The East Pacific Sovereign Army

  • Ministry of Foreign Affairs

  • Ministry of Information and Communications

  • Ministry of Culture

  • Ministry of Immigration

  • Ministry of World Assembly Affairs

  • TEP Evolved Roleplay

— End quote

I don’t see the use for asking for a nation’s aliases, regions, and former puppets. It’s really easy to simply lie and get away with it, and I believe we can handle people incompetent enough to put things in their citapp that would mark them as suspicious. At least, I would like to think so.

Also, as far as I know, we don’t really fact check people beyond their WA nation.

And I think this long citapp, with its big bolded letters, further confuses residents and adds to the misconception of our forums being “difficult to follow”. ALso, I believe it’s needless work, though bless that person who filed all of their 100 puppets XD

But really, I don’t see the point of it. Is there something I’m missing?

Let’s have our first Vizier debate! :smiley:

2

As the Minister of Immigration I support this. What we’re actually doing is searching for errors in the applications. It has nothing to do with security. Only applicants that make a mistake will get “cought”, but applicants that deliberately and consistently leave out information that may get their application rejected will not.

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3

— Begin quote from ____

As the Minister of Immigration I support this. What we’re actually doing is searching for errors in the applications. It has nothing to do with security. Only applicants that make a mistake will get “cought”, but applicants that deliberately and consistently leave out information that may get their application rejected will not.

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— End quote

Agreed.

4

However, I believe this form is also, more or less, laid out in regional legislation. So we should check and if necessary, bring it up in the Magisterium.
I will look into it later this weekend, unless someone beats me to it.

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5

— Begin quote from ____

However, I believe this form is also, more or less, laid out in regional legislation. So we should check and if necessary, bring it up in the Magisterium.
I will look into it later this weekend, unless someone beats me to it.

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— End quote

As an Arbiter who is now well-versed in TEP law (never thought I’d see the day), I’m well sure there is nothing listing what’s needed in an application.

The sole thing we need is a ratification, the rest is up to the Grand Vizier.

I checked the Concordat and we both worked on amending the CN&S act, and neither mention any other needed stuff.  (Note that OOC stuff, like private IPs and making an account need to be kept, this is for IC stuff only).

I’d like to hear other Vizier’s thoughts if they have any. Otherwise, I’ll assume everyone is in favor or neutral to the matter. :stuck_out_tongue:

6

You’re right. It was in the expired Viceroy memoranda.

And yes, Viziers, let’s hear your opinions! Most of you have been in the Magisterium as well, so you know the drill. Get your arses up here and spill your thoughts on the matter!

7

Personally, I’d like to see the bit about “other aliases” stay. It shows that people are willing to admit who they are and what they’ve done more readily.

I know you stated that it’s easy to lie on that, but when people know more than they should, looking at that is a good way to see. Sometimes they will say they are these people, but under those names say they are different people that are security risks to the region and our government.

So all in all, that part isnt bad to keep.

8

— Begin quote from ____

Personally, I’d like to see the bit about “other aliases” stay. It shows that people are willing to admit who they are and what they’ve done more readily.

I know you stated that it’s easy to lie on that, but when people know more than they should, looking at that is a good way to see. Sometimes they will say they are these people, but under those names say they are different people that are security risks to the region and our government.

So all in all, that part isnt bad to keep.

— End quote

Edited the alias part back in.

9

The changes look good. If anyone has any concerns about the change, we’d like to hear it.

10

Fixed some typos, oopsies :>

11

In my opinion the aliases still could go, but I am glad we got the region and organizations questions out and by that also ended the discussion whether residency should be included.

So, let’s get this passed.

12

There’s no procedure for this, so we might as well just follow the Magisterium and our voting procedure for elections.

I motion the above draft to become the new citizenship application, with part of the citapp to become a separate form of notice.

May I get a second?

13

I will second this.

I must say though that I find it difficult to see zero involvement from 73% of the Viziers. Not even a sign of acknowledgement. That makes me feel insecure. Have those Viziers not found the time yet to read through this, and are we three pushing this too quickly? Or have they read it, but just don’t care? Or are they eagerly waiting for it to go to vote?
Personally, I would like to know if we have arrived at a consensus before things go to vote. I hate having to do things over (for instance when it doesn’t pass due to objections to certain points, that could have been discussed beforehand). But that’s just me. And it’s not just here. I have the same feeling in the Magisterium sometimes, so don’t take it personally.
Anyway. Seconded.

14

— Begin quote from ____

I will second this.

I must say though that I find it difficult to see zero involvement from 73% of the Viziers. Not even a sign of acknowledgement. That makes me feel insecure. Have those Viziers not found the time yet to read through this, and are we three pushing this too quickly? Or have they read it, but just don’t care? Or are they eagerly waiting for it to go to vote?
Personally, I would like to know if we have arrived at a consensus before things go to vote. I hate having to do things over (for instance when it doesn’t pass due to objections to certain points, that could have been discussed beforehand). But that’s just me. And it’s not just here. I have the same feeling in the Magisterium sometimes, so don’t take it personally.
Anyway. Seconded.

— End quote

Same feeling. I can verify that it’s the exact same in the Conclave.

I will say this.

Most people don’t really have time to debate, and usually most will agree with whatever consensus was concocted by those doing the debating. And for the record, I respect that. If you agree, then what’s the use of saying so? Show it to vote.

I will say that I extremely dislike people who do vote NAY and don’t debate stuff for topics that are not controversial. If you’re gonna vote NAY, explain why, because your critique might help the proposal.

But, it is what it is. I assume and believe most Viziers are okay with this, so we’ll jam and live.

15

— Begin quote from ____

I will say that I extremely dislike people who do vote NAY and don’t debate stuff for topics that are not controversial. If you’re gonna vote NAY, explain why, because your critique might help the proposal.

— End quote

That!
Though not the people who do vote NAY, as I distinct the person from their action unless there’s a clear pattern, but the fact a NAY vote was cast without any explanation and without any contribution to the debate in which the proposal could have been formed into something they would have voted FOR for.

16

Sorry for my late reply. I got lost in forum 1654897 :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (in all seriousness ping, ping, ping)

What I would suggest is adding more detail to what the executive ministries and organizations (I would add EPPS in the list also) actually do. For example:

The East Pacific Sovereign Army
>
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
>Represent TEP to our friends and allies as an Ambassador
Ministry of Information and Communications
>Be a journalist for the news service. Produce a podcast for our YouTube channel. Become a professor at our university.
Ministry of Culture
>Do research on TEP’s past. Plan events with other regions. Host game night!
Ministry of Immigration
>Help new people, like yourself, find their way here – to the regional capitol – and exploring everything TEP has to offer.
Ministry of World Assembly Affairs
>
East Pacific Police Force
>Protect our regional security by enforcing compliance with regional laws.
The Evolved Multiverse Roleplay
>

The blank spots is became I ran out of juice but you get the idea.

17

— Begin quote from ____

Sorry for my late reply. I got lost in forum 1654897 :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (in all seriousness ping, ping, ping)

What I would suggest is adding more detail to what the executive ministries and organizations (I would add EPPS in the list also) actually do.  For example:

The East Pacific Sovereign Army
>
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
>Represent TEP to our friends and allies as an Ambassador
Ministry of Information and Communications
>Be a journalist for the news service. Produce a podcast for our YouTube channel. Become a professor at our university.
Ministry of Culture
>Do research on TEP’s past. Plan events with other regions. Host game night!
Ministry of Immigration
>Help new people, like yourself, find their way here – to the regional capitol – and exploring everything TEP has to offer.
Ministry of World Assembly Affairs
>
East Pacific Police Force
>Protect our regional security by enforcing compliance with regional laws.
The Evolved Multiverse Roleplay
>

The blank spots is became I ran out of juice but you get the idea.

— End quote

I like this idea! I think we could do a bit more of a quirky style to it though (kinda like how Elfine did the EPSA app, if you remember, that kind of tone is interesting)

I’ll write my own suggestions, but this makes sense. Since no one is copying the organizations anymore, we can risk expanding it a little bit to provide an explanation.

18

I agree with McStooley about leaving in the part about other aliases. I also agree with East Malaysia about providing more information about the executive ministries and organizations. Anyone submitting an application would find that really helpful in deciding if they would possibly be interested in joining one of the organizations.

Overall though, I think the new application looks good. It is much simpler to fill out for the applicants, and it should be more efficient to look over, which saves time and energy. I am definitely in favor of the way the new application currently stands.

19

The East Pacific Sovereign Army
> Ever wanted to serve the war effort? Become a soldier today and make your region proud! Activities include updating, piling, pillaging, and partying.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
>Show off your diplomacy skills and represent the East Pacific in a foreign region of your choice! 
Ministry of Information and Communications
>Have a scoop on corrupt government officials or an on-going civil war? Write with us about regional mishaps here!
Ministry of Culture
>Force your friends to enjoy regional events and games you helped create!
Ministry of Immigration
>Help guide the newbies to the beacon of all life: East Pacifican citizenship!
Ministry of World Assembly Affairs
>Learn how to write World Assembly proposals and deal with drunk ambassadors!
East Pacific Police Force
>Catch the bad guys red-handed  and badly ashamed by assisting the Viziers with enforcing the endorsement caps!
The Evolved Multiverse Roleplay
>Experience the might of storytelling by becoming your own author in our roleplay world!

Something like this, I think.

20

I don’t really have anything to add at this moment, pretty much anything I could say would just be parroting Brotherland. Although I do quite like the descriptions that Zuk provided just now.