A thread regarding the Charter wasn’t ported over so I’m doing this now so TT doesn’t nuke itself.
This was a closed discussion between some senior TEP officials discussing a constitution to replace TEP’s first Constitution, the Articles of Confederation. This discussion went from 9/26/2004 to 2/03/2005.
Over a year ago, when Loop typed up the original articles of confederation(which I still see as a beautiful peice of work), the East Pacific Government consisted of Loop himself, and a couple of advisors. The articles were meant to be a basic guideline for a government which was planned to be, at the time, confederational. No large cabinet, no judicial system, no grand senate. Much of this was not seen.
However, with the returning of some old members to the forums, and the increased activity of others, the EP government has gone from non-existance, to a full federated entity. It has a judicial system, a legislative system, a full executive system (including cabinet), an active intelligence agency, and active ambassadors to multiple inter-regional organizations, as well as a UN liason.
As these departments began to thrive, however, they came across a serious problem. One which still plagues us today. The Articles of Confederation, the document these departments were made to support, can no longer guide them. It has been outgrown. In a way, it is obsolete. Its broad, general, confederational statements can no longer support and give guidance to a booming federal government, one now in power in the East Pacific.
And so it is now that I must suggest these articles of confederation be dropped. They served us once, but their time is over. It is now that we must embark on an all new journey, without these great words to support us.
It is now that we must move on, and creat another document. A document more then that of a confederation, something we no longer are. We must create a document reminiscing of a large, federal government…exactly what we are now.
What we need is a constitution. Not just a bunch of broad strokes, but instead, a document full of details. Details supporting the activity of the new, diffirent departments of our government. A new document, allowing our government to thrive any more, and to become what we all what it to be.
It will require work. Tiresome, ugly work. Work no one wants to do. But work that must be done, for the good of the region. Every day, we watch as friendships are broken, and as the forums are torn apart by the endless fighting over the few senate resoloutions, and the articles that are our current government.
This cannot continue, if this region is ever to become great. A clear, concise constitution is required. Something someone can read, and fully understand. Something with as few loopholes as possible, and a lucid explanation of how things are to work.
It is this new document that wil lbe the diffirence between the Great East Pacific, or the small, inconsequential, forgotten about Pacific. The diffirence between power…and needing to take a shower to get the shit off your face. It is now, friends, that we must act. For the good of the region, and for the good of our constituents.
Fellow Pacificans…we need a new constitution. And we need it now . No ifs, ands, or buts.
And so I ask. Who is willing to give up their time, their energy, and their laziness to help out this region? Who is willing to sit down here, in this forum, on this topic if necesary, and start outlining the document which will save our region from the precipice of hell . Who is ready to show their love for this region, and its government, and who is ready to show their pussiness?
State it now, my friends. Will you be a catalyst of change, will you facilitate the bringing about of greatness? Or will you continue to sink in the shit that our region will become without action?
Decide now, fellow Pacificans. Because, like it or not, this region’s fate is in your hands.
*Loop changed the title.
Doing this in tandem with a revision of our look and gov’t appearance may provide a boost in interest from other players.
Oh, and just sidenote. I got a little but cought up in my own speaking there, so I apologize if my statements seem a little…fanatic…but…anyways, I still agree with the message, and with Wachovia.
I’d be interested in trying to do this, as I too feel that the Articles of Confederation are unsuitable for the region as a whole; however, this is something of a bad time, as I’m off to university next week.
Your language is just a tad extreme, though…
Just trying to make a point…lol. I’m not sure I should have included the phrase “Precipice of hell”, or the phrase “Shower the shit off your face” though.
No need to apologise FPS, you spoke wonderfully and I agree, I have long supported our unique station as teh only large confederacy in the game and I agree those documents I liberally stole and reconfigured into our Articals, that I like so well do need to be remade, to encompass what we have grwon to be.
a few things I want in our proposed constitution.
No military, it is our greatest strenght and earns us a respect no other region has.
Endorsement cap preferably set at 100 as I can much easier root out subversives and miscreants , had I been watching for 150+ the other day when I recieved teh message about the RRA moving in, we could well be under their rule now. Pixies has been linked to the RRA and ADN it was also hinted that “she” is Crazy girl herself.
Veto preferably line item,
there are other things we could use, and they will come to me oer the nest few days,
I do ask this one thing though, we allow the Articals to stay until November first, that way they can have lasted a full year (they went into effect on October 31 2003)
I will decalre teh constitutional convention tomorrow evening when I log in. I need to adujust permission mask so only our residents can input.
I suggest we begin finding models
also I still think it woud be intereesting for us to become the Soviet east Pacific, but that probably aint gonna happen.
Yea, I think it would be nice if we let the articles go until November 1st, so they can survive an entire year. They deserve that, at the least, after having worked so hard to be a guideline for something they weren’t.
And I’m glad you agree with me, Loop. Can’t wait for the convention.
The convention needs to be held in secret though, with a preferable unanamous decision.
I’d disagree with that. Some openness will benefit us right now.
I think we should begin prediscussions here in this thread to hammer out what we definitly wnat, then move it to public debate among the residents who are registered.
aroung OCT 15 announce publicly what we are doing and go for Ratification (9/10ths)
on Nov 1 - 14th
and impliment the new ones to take effect on Thanksgiving, (or the 27th my b day lol)
OK, I had a couple of hours free, so I typed up a proposal for mulling. I borrowed the preamble from elsewhere, the rest is all my own work. Bear in mind that I’ve just done this in one go, so it’'ll probably have a number of errors in.
Edit: New version uploaded (See FPS’ suggestion below)
I’ll probably have time to read it sometime later this week. Looks good from what I’ve skimmed.
Ill read it when I get home (no MSWord here) we will also have to decide on how to display it, I know one forum uses a category for the constitution with topics for each
section so as to make it easier to search. as one topic as we have is probably sound, it makes it harder to search.
Will read ASAP, teachers are REALLY piling it on at the moment.
I REALLY believe that there needs to be a way to over-rule a judicial decision.
Okay, a few comments.
First of all, the power to the delegate. As much as I respect Loop, the executive portion of the government pretty much just states “The delegate can do w/e the hell he wants, and if you don’t like it, too bad.”
wrote:1.1.1 The delegate shall have ultimate control over membership of the region, and shall have the power to remove from the region any nation seen to be in contravention of this charter or subsequent laws passed by the legislative branch.
Uh…gotta ask…whats the judicial branch for again? Because if the delegate is the unquestioned banner, the branch is just a waste of space.
wrote:The delegate shall be appointed as ambassador of the East Pacific to foreign regions, and shall have the power to make such treaties as are permissible under this charter, and do not violate the individual rights of nations.
Um…perhaps having hte Legislative have to approve such things? Seems logical.
wrote:The delegate shall appoint advisors as he sees fit, and may designate to them any such powers as are granted to him under this charter.
Any such powers? Which means…what? That they can override any other branch to do as they wish? Some clarification would be nice.
wrote:The Assembly shall make laws by the popular vote of the Lords. All laws must subsequently be approved by the delegate, who shall maintain power of veto.
Is there any way for the Assembly of Lords to get around the veto? Like, in many modern day governments, a veto can be overruled by a large majority of congress. Are we going to allow this, or just give the delegate total power over bills?
Overall, the charter looks good. My objections are simply in the hope that the delegate of the EP, although technically holding much power, won’t be given, governmentally, all power over everything. The power to veto bills, the power to kick nations, no matter the thoughts of the judicial branch, etc.
Besides these worries, it looks great. As for the judicial overrule…I’d just suggest that, whenever someone is first arrested, they be booted, so that they have to restart whatever they were doing…thereby, giving us a second chance to go at them. Sure, first time around, they might get off, but twice on the same charge, and they’ll be convicted, no doubt. Its sorta like confining someone before the trial.
Personally, I prefer to frame these things in NS in terms of the game, perhaps the one thing I have in common with the PRP.
We don’t have power to give to the delegate. The delegate has power to lend to us. Were we in another region, it wouldn’t be quite this way but it’s a unique trait of pacifics that we shouldn’t pretend doesn’t exist. As much as I like other pacifics, I think that’s the one failing of some of the other governments out there.
That doesn’t mean that a judicial system or assembly is useless and I think it would be a good gesture not to demand final veto outright.
Perhaps a popularly elected Prime minister could be added .
also anyone could “sue” to overturn a judicial decision I dont want the power to do it I just wanted that veto power.
I honestly think we need to look at the constitution of Lemuria and the documents of the PRP as well as the RL constitutions of the US and perhaps others,
I seriously think we can write a better document than anyone, and perhaps we could even push back launch day if needed,
should I make a hidden category for those on teh constitutional committe alone to see?