Quick apology: I’ve moved to using linux now, at least on one machine, and whilst OpenOffice purports to save things in word format, I couldn’t upload it for some reason. The text format works, although being a bit more difficult to read.
Thanks for all your work on this Codex. Very cool. A few comments follow:
On the Senate:
If this body is to represent the people in general, I’d understand elections and term limits. Really the two go together in my mind. That said, aren’t the senators more a representation of the nations of the confederation? In this case, it would seem fine to have a giant senate (ala Star Wars) that had prominent speakers that carried the day. If someone really goes inactive (which hasn’t happened yet) we can introduce seperate legislation requiring some level of involvement it seems.
On Endorsement Cap, ADN and Defense Force:
I agree we shouldn’t lay down changeable specifics (number of endorsements, specific treaties or lack thereof, and military structure.) (I hope I’m not flip-flopping too much.) Still, there are underlying principles that we should probably consider. For example, the agreement that an endorsement cap can and should exist could be included. We could specify that it is not our intention to enter into treaties with organizations whose sole purpose is war (either as an invader or defender.) We could also specify that the region is comitted to nuetrality, except in the case of defending allies. This could be stated in such a way that makes it clear that regional troops will not participate in offensive military actions. (Wasn’t this part of Japan’s consitution or equivalent document after WWII?)
I had hoped that section 1.1.8 ‘During the period of the delegates incumbency, all nations are actively prohibited from campaigning for the delegacy, and the legislative house is instructed to make such laws as are necessary to enforce this.’ should have been enough to give the legislative house a requirement to pass these laws without needing further details.
Will elaborate, but have to go eat tea…
Ah, my bad. I agree that should take care of the endorsement matter. I find that my last reading of the document is not fresh in my mind.
wrt elections, etc. I’m not necessarily happy with the idea of the senate passing legislation to alter the nature of its own composition - that is the kind of thing that needs to go into the charter proper. And whilst the facility is there, I’d really rather we didn’t pass this thing only to amend it within a few days. From what you’re saying, however, the senate/college/assembly would effectively be composed of all the Matriculati/Ratified Members of the EP. Whilst I don’t necessarily have a problem with this, it does seem like something of a deviation from our original ideas of what it should be.
As per the war thing… yes, a kind of ‘policy statement’ saying that we don’t intend to get into wars, etc… well possibly, but I’m inclined to point out that, taking your line ‘We could also specify that the region is comitted to nuetrality, except in the case of defending allies’, I suspect you would find that this is precisely what organisations such as the ADN say that they do. I don’t want a discussion on the nature of the ADN here, since it would be entirely pointless given that there exist definite strong opinions about them; however, writing something like that into the charter will not, I feel, serve any real purpose.
The general gist of saying we won’t get involved in any offensive actions, I agree with. However, I think it’s very difficult to reconcile within what is partially an IC document, since the terms of offensive action here are strictly OOC. I’ve tried to balance the two with regard to endorsements in this region; expanding it to multiple regions could prove tricky and cumbersome.
Possibly something such as ‘The Delegate is prohibited from establishing such relations as serve to undermine the governments of foreign regions, or from precipitating war against such regions’ would suffice?
I’m mindful that we want to get this implemented, so I want to propose that we take the current version and put it out for suggestions among the rest of the forum - maybe post a link in the regional factbook. It may be that somebody picks up a flaw that we’ve missed, and should be put in now. We might also consider presenting it to The Realm of Criminology… they seemed interested in that sort of thing, and, again, might have valuable input
I’d have no problem with it putting it out there. It would be good if we could frame it well. Meaning that, simply saying we’re making things better is ok but framing the rewrite in some roleplay terminology or as part of a larger plan would make for more of a driving force.
In terms of the senate, it would be a departure from early ideas but I would daresay that with our current level of activity or even future levels, it’s not that far from what people, even some present now, expect it to be.
OK, well, I’m going to take a plain vanilla version and throw it out to the Realm of Criminology, see if they have any opinions, since they’re likely to be largely unconcerned with any RP background to it. If people want to come up with an RP scenario before throwing it out to the forum, that seems fair enough.
This senate thing… this seems quite a big change, quite late on. FPS, Loop, Pack, opinions? I personally would rather see a small, active senate than a large, inactive one. If only for reasons of tidiness. Of course, if we can get a large, active senate, then all the better.
Please put it in our region before you post it elsewhere. Otherwise we risk slighting our active posters here like Fish Island and other non-mods.
I’ve gotta say, I like the idea of a small, active, randomly elected senate over a large inactive one. My problem is…how do we do elections? I mean, do we just put a bunch of people on the ballot, and let everyone vote for however many they want, or what? If we are going to add in elections, were gonna have to do some serious brainstorming on how to do it.
On the international relations front…Codex is right. Putting “The ADN suck, and we won’t talk with them,” in our charter is just plain stupid. The charter already puts regional relations in Loop’s charge (Unless he delegates it to a cheif ambassador or something), lets just leave it that way, and let Loop simply go by his own opinions in the matter. I have the same opinion towards putting in specific laws…we can do it through another document, or an amendment, at a later time.
On the new document…my thanks for including the appeals process, and defendant’s rights, Codex.
Finally, on names (I hate to keep bringing it up, but it needs finalization). Hate to say it, but I agree with Wachovia…Codex’s term list seems a little bit too educational. But on the other hand, although Head of the Assembly is good, I don’t think I like the “Commander,” of the EPDI…it makes it seem more like a military then a emergency defense force. I mean, it’ll be Pack serving in the position, so I guess the final choice will go to him, but I’d suggest something a little less militaristic (But, if you don’t like Director, perhaps Comissarr will work?). As for the rest…I think we can all agree on Head of the Assembly, Assembly of the Confederation, Representatives, Regional Court (With Appeal to Supreme Court), and East Pacific Defense Force
As for whether or not to rename the delegate, what to call the EPDI Head, and what to rename the current “Secretaries,” (if we rename them)…I’m clueless.
The Wachovia Coalition wrote:Please put it in our region before you post it elsewhere. Otherwise we risk slighting our active posters here like Fish Island and other non-mods.
Good point. In consideration, I agree here. Apologies, I was being hasty earlier on. Hasty is not good, as any ent will tell you.
However, if you think we should have a RP background to this before introducing it (personally, I can’t see it as being that necessary), should we actually come up with one? Because delaying things due to the lack of an IC context seems rather pointless.
uhh… Packilvania, and Loop just kicked the shit out of each other…
We could use that…
Hmmmm…without a bigass RP setup, its hard for me to think of much that we could do to propose it. The idea that comes to mind for me would be to have either Commander Kreft or President Terrus propose it to the IC Senate as a way of reforming the now defunct EP government, and bringing Packilvania back into the union.
Then again…perhaps having the Codex being come forth and propose it as a way of preventing future hostilities…it would give Codex a window back into the RP world (if he would like it), and would put a little irregularity into the regional RP.
I can’t think of any other ideas that would work well without a lot more RP set up…but if any of you have an idea?
for the charter since we all exist both IC and OOC then how bout the chrater house both IC and OOC rulesets?
also for titles how bout we adopt an option for each office to have three interchangable names, let the user of the title choose the one they like, it will help promote the fact we are a confederacy and respect naitonal soverignity, but we do need a bit of note about accountability (the main part I hate about the ADN)
and make sure folks knwo that they are acountable for their actions and cannot hide behind stuf.
Free Pacific States wrote:Hmmmm…without a bigass RP setup, its hard for me to think of much that we could do to propose it. The idea that comes to mind for me would be to have either Commander Kreft or President Terrus propose it to the IC Senate as a way of reforming the now defunct EP government, and bringing Packilvania back into the union.
Then again…perhaps having the Codex being come forth and propose it as a way of preventing future hostilities…it would give Codex a window back into the RP world (if he would like it), and would put a little irregularity into the regional RP.
I can’t think of any other ideas that would work well without a lot more RP set up…but if any of you have an idea?
Any of the above would work for me. I guess here’s what I’m thinking. The Senate including Kel have been working on various ammendments to the articles so there is some recognition that our current documents aren’t quite adequate. It would be great though if we could present this as something to better the region in a way that doesn’t completely seem like the inner circle setting up rules that make them feel better about the region.
I’d be happy to make a short speach to that effect if it’s ok with folks here. It does seem like it would be good to have some unsettled issues (need for more accountability and titles) that others in the region could contribute to. Of course if I made such a speech I’d be sure to make sure everyone here got appropriate credit.
Yeah one definite way to draw them tighter in is to give them a hand in making the laws, I say we go for it,
Perhaps FPS cousl initiate it by assuming the role of President of the senate de fault since Pack stepped down, and we can go from there,
Roxanne would be happy to support the new legislation, and Stratha will soon be the junior senator from IL.
I did NOT step down. IC wise, I left the confederation.
Next time around Pack, we’ll have to think about doing that whole thing differently. A lot of us around here don’t draw the same IC / OOC lines.
I’ll try to get a introduction here around lunch and put it up in the evening if feedback is good.
I’m sorry folks. Unlike those in school, my life gets busier and busier as the end of the year approaches. I won’t be in action today. If someone else wants to build a little vision for the new charter (people should know why we are doing this, how it will benefit them and some of our next steps) go for it.
Loop, people would benefit most from hearing you say it probably but I understand your time is limited.
I know what you mean about busy,
I work at a steak resturant and from thanksgiving till about jan 15 it is busy as fark,
I havnt had a day off since thanksgiving
A possible intro:
Fellow nations of the confederation,
We have long been a peace-loving region since our delegate, Infinite Loop, took the reigns of our region before my time. In my time, I have seen the indivual culture of each nation have it’s opportunity to shine under the fine leadership of many respected national leaders who took the initiative to improve the lot of their neighbors and their people. It is little secret that we do not always agree how to best do this. I have had disagreements with most here at one point or another. Still, we resolve this with decorum and respect many times. Even when some of our more agressive member nations rear their head, few lives are lost and peace is discovered after a time.
Some have said our region is… well, eccentric. They note our great concern over the dreaded fridge owl and the more malevolent cyborg fridge owl. They hear of the increased incidents of druken squirrels. There are even rumors that some of our member nations value anime and nekomimi more highly than long declarations. Let us end these rumors. It’s all true. Though I sometimes find myself shaking my head, I love this region for it’s willingness to embrace the unique. I hope all our members revel in the quirks that make our region enjoyable in a way unique among the Pacifics.
In recent months, many have noted that with great enthusiasm we put together a set of articles of confederation that may not fit our true nature well. Quite frankly, they are also quite confusing so that any new person may look long and hard before they understand the whole. Some complexity is the necessary burden of any organization but this must be addressed.
Today, I would like to present to you with a document that members of the region you respect have begun to compile. The hope is that we as a region can begin part of the road to re-establish our region’s identity through a charter that spells out the broad strokes of our region.
You will note that a number of issues need to be resolved yet. We did not want to assume we had all the answers though we knew we had to have a start so that the process would not take forever. In the coming days, please invest a short amount of time to read this document and provide comments if you are part of the region. (Foreigners are asked not to comment here. They may speak to the deleagate or any government official, including myself, privately and express any concerns.)
Let’s be clear. This does not replace the articles or abolish all current laws. It sets a course that will define our region. During that process, we will likely need to make serious revisions of our articles, the extend of which will be discussed in another thread.
So please, come. Read this document and comment. Infinite Loop and each of us has long made a practice of inviting young nations to dive into the region and help out. This is no exception.