Did the bombing of Japan cause the end of the Second World War? First UTEP Agora Debate

The following agora took place from 11th September to 5th October 2020 in the original UTEP Discord server. It was moderated by Wonderess, UTEP Chancellor, while the participants were SirShadow, UTEP Lecturer, and Bobberino, Dean of Social Sciences.

[justify]https://i.imgur.com/wUskGrx.png
[/justify]

[justify]Wonderess[/justify]
[justify]Welcome to the first UTEP agora. Let it be known that the Rules of Decorum are most strongly enforced here. The current agora limit is set at 7 days.[/justify]

[justify]Question at hand: Did the bombing of Japan cause the end of the Second World War?[/justify]

[justify]Rights of Participants: You have the right to be heard, the right to ask your fellow participant for a source on a given point, the right to use scholarly sources to reinforce your points, the right to invite a fellow UTEPer into the agora to aid in your points (up to 2 per original participant), the right to ask the Dean of Humanities or the Chancellor to review a possible rule violation by your fellow participant, and the right to 2 warnings of rule violations before being expelled from the agora.[/justify]

[justify]Participants: Bobberino (0 warnings) - SirShadow (0 warnings)[/justify]

[justify]You may now post your opening statements when ready.[/justify]

Opening statements

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]Observers of the agora, my colleague Bobberino, and to the Chancellor Wonderess, thank you for opening the agora. It is nice to hold a debate on a topic that I believe gets overlooked. Now, the end of World War II was quite the event. Germany was left alone after Italy flipped sides in 1943, and Japan was still fighting in the Pacific front. As we all know, D-Day had happened on June 6th, 1944 bringing Germany on it’s knees leading to the German surrender on May 7th, 1945. Now, this is important to note since the surrender of Germany did not end World War 2. The War in Europe was over. America still was at war with Japan, in a separate war since Germany declared war on America after the American declaration of War on Japan on December 9th, 1941. Arguably, Japan was alone in a war by an industrial powerhouse who had just awoken. Without any outside help and with the Soviets declaring war on Japan and invading Manchuria, Japan was already on the ropes. Bombing Japan was an unnecessary move in the surrender of Japan. I argue that the bombing of Japan was more of a political statement against the Soviets than it was about ending the War.[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]Friends, colleagues, citizens, and observers. I disagree this topic is overlooked, but I feel it needs addressing regardless. The Japanese were a waning power after having been abandoned by their German allies, with their mighty empire now shrunk down to the Home Islands. Regardless? The Japanese were ready to fight to the extinction of their own people before the bomb was dropped. To quote Hirohito - “To strive for the common prosperity and happiness of all nations, as well as the security and wellbeing of our subjects, is the solemn obligation which has been handed down by our imperial ancestors and which lies close to our hear … The enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable… Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation…” - showing his ultimate fear of the bomb being an immediate threat to the Japanese nation. I argue the bomb was paramount to the surrender of Japan.[/justify]

[justify]Wonderess[/justify]
[justify]Thank you both. We will move to cross examination. You will each take turns proposing or challenges to the other position. Your challenge will then be responded to and then answered in kind with a question or challenge. SirShadow posted his opening statement and so he will be the first examiner.[/justify]

[justify]Cross examination[/justify]

[justify]SirShadow’s examination[/justify]

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]Honestly, I’ve tried to think of a more clever question to ask, but I’ll take the simple route first. You start your opening statement off by saying Japan is a waning power after the defeat of Germany. Can you explain what you mean by a waning power, and Why you don’t think this was the reason Japan was close to surrendering to begin with?[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]A waning power… a power on its last legs… all things to describe the state Japan was in towards the end of the war, heading into August 1945. A power whose influence once spanned nearly half the Pacific Ocean, now the size of the home islands; ready for a last suicidal defense of those home islands. And why was Japan not ready to surrender? Simply their nature. Japan had no military infrastructure to speak of, but what do they do with their last planes? Literally suicide charges into American ships. What did Japanese foot soldiers do when outnumbered and outgunned and nearly pushed off an island? A banzai charge of course - where men would, at times, rush at American soldiers with bamboo sticks as part of their last desperate human wave to try to take back whatever battlefield was being contested.[/justify]

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]Why would a wanning power even attempt to go against a nation with the economic and military might to destroy them, with another production powerhouse going to war against them? To what advantage would Japan have fighting at that time?[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]A waning power would fight for its dignity. Japan held - and to an extent still holds - as an integral part of its culture, a bond with ritual and honorable suicide, that extended up to military policy. To quote a survivor from Okinawa, stating that there were three main factors that caused this: "The ideology of obedience to the Emperor, the presence of the Imperial Japanese Army, and being on an island…with no way to escape… Back in those days of 100 million Japanese citizens supposedly being prepared to fight to the very last man, everybody was prepared for death… The doctrine of total obedience to the Emperor emphasized death and made light of life. The willingness to die for the Emperor on a faraway island resulted in a whole new sense of identity.”[/justify]

[justify]Wonderess[/justify]
[justify]Bobberino, it is your time to cross examine. You may ask a question or place a challenge before Sir Shadow.[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino’s examination[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]I would like to challenge your understanding of the invasion by the Soviets. Why would this be more of a threat than the bomb? The Americans had plans to be in the Home Islands by (if memory serves) September. By the time of the ceasefire, the most advanced Soviet forces had not yet reached the 38th Parallel and the Japanese were fighting a contested retreat. I reiterate my question - were the Soviets really more of a threat to the Japanese islands than the Americans?[/justify]

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]If we looked at who was a threat to the Home Islands, then no, the Soviets weren’t a threat at the time. However, it wasn’t just about the Home Islands. The Japanese held onto territory in China and in Korea. This land was just as important as the Home Islands. If Japan had any hope of keeping their sphere of influence, they needed the land they had in China. In addition, China provided a great place for the Japanese to have factories and naval dockyards. Now, yes, you are right. The Soviets had yet to cross the 38th parallel, but that didn’t mean they were slacking. The Soviets fought like the Japanese: to the last man. Except, in the case of the Soviets, you died, and someone else picked up your gun and carried on fighting.

At the same time, the Soviets were able to defeat the Kwantung Army, which was stationed in Manchuria. The Kwantung Army served as the largest unit of the Japanese military, and while their defeat, and the pure fact that the Soviets declared war, showed the Japanese government the Soviets were not interested in serving as a neutral third party in negotiations between America and Japan, but rather a continuation of hostilities.[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]In essence, the war at that point was over the Home Islands. China was gone. The Kwantung Army had been defeated, as you stated, and the territory Japan held was gone. Korea was on a fighting retreat. So realistically, the only hope for Japan to continue fighting (which they had sworn to do, as I have previously shown) the war was to mount a defense on the Home Islands. As for the navy? The navy had been a shell of itself since Midway, and all but naught since the Marianas Turkey Shoot. The issue for the Soviets was they were fighting a land force, then needed to pull off an amphibious assault against Japan. This amphibious assault would not work, given that, well… the Soviets had realistically no ports, no ships, and nowhere to land, given that they hadn’t even taken Korea yet. There was no threat the Soviets realistically posed to Japan proper (the only relevant part of Japanese territory), even if Manchuria was gone.[/justify]

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]I counter with how the Japanese government felt after the defeat of the Kwangtung Army. The government, after it’s defeat, felt it was impossible to continue fighting on. They were already ready to surrender. The atomic bomb being dropped at that point was useless. It is also important to not that the Soviet-Japanese War started before the bombs were dropped, and almost a few days later, they were dropped. The bombs were not about Japan, but they were rather about showing American might, especially since relations between the two nations had dwindled to being very cold and chilly. The military was already ready to surrender, and the government was already ready to begin a ceasefire. The bombs were an excessive addition to the atrocities of all three sides.[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]I would like to state, again, that the Japanese had no intention of surrender. You may scroll up for my justification of such.[/justify]

Closing statements

[justify]SirShadow[/justify]
[justify]Observers of the agora, I direct your attention to the understanding that Japan was at war with America separately from WWII. by the time Germany had surrendered, the only person Japan had to worry about was America, They were prepared to fight against America, but once the Soviets joined the battle, Japan faced a dark reality: loss. Japan had an attempted coup when the concept of peace and surrender was a possibility. Japan was giving up, and America dropped the bomb on Japan not to force them into surrender, but to show their might against the Soviets. The war was no longer American vs. Japan at that point. It was America vs. USSR, and Japan was caught in the crossfire. If the bomb had been to stop Japan, there were plenty of other target they could have it.[/justify]

[justify]Bobberino[/justify]
[justify]I would like to conclude by saying that Japan was in no state of readiness to accept its loss. Japan, regardless of the Soviet front, was not to accept a loss due to the culture of Japan; was unable to properly assess the direness of the situation - e.g. “we can push back!” - and the Soviets did not prove to be a looming threat to the Home Islands which were the focus of the Japanese government at the time. Japan was not ready to give up - they were ready to fight to the extinction of the Japanese people. The bomb was necessary to save American, Soviet and, ironically, Japanese lives - by preventing an invasion whose outcome was not in doubt, but only its timeline. Observers of the agora, I thank you for your time and attention, and I thank my opponent SirShadow for offering himself as a victim providing a competent and educated debate partner. Have an excellent evening.[/justify]

[justify]Wonderess[/justify]
Thank you both. This conversation will be transcribed on the forum for permanent viewing.