I think it’s gud.
Magisterium sets up the processes, Conclave oversees it and accepts appeals.
The right to denial of citizenship can easily be interpreted , and detailed further with laws.
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Just so we can see them side by side
The original:
— Begin quote from ____
Article E: Citizenship
Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat.
Section 2) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]
Section 3) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.
— End quote
The current draft of the proposed amendment:
— Begin quote from ____
Article E: Citizenship
Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements for naturalization as may be codified into law.
Section 2) Residents that are denied Citizenship may file an appeal with the Conclave.
Section 3) The Magisterium may, by majority vote, define additional requirements for obtaining Citizenship within the East Pacific.
Section 4) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]
Section 5) The Conclave lead by the Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and maintaining a record of all Citizens.
— End quote
— Begin quote from ____
The current draft of the proposed amendment:
— Begin quote from ____
Article E: Citizenship
Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements for naturalization as may be codified into law.
Section 2) Residents that are denied Citizenship may file an appeal with the Conclave.
Section 3) The Magisterium may, by majority vote, define additional requirements for obtaining Citizenship within the East Pacific.
Section 4) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]
Section 5) The Conclave lead by the Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and maintaining a record of all Citizens.
— End quote
— End quote
If that is the final version, I am fully supporting it.
I am not sure if I have to wait 48h since thread was opened or since the reply was posted.
If it is since the thread was opened, then
Magister Libertanny would like to motionthis Amendment to Article E: Citizenship of the Concordat to vote.
I second the motion to vote.
Thirded. I’m satisfied with those changes.
[mention]Bastiat[/mention] [mention]A Slanted Black Stripe[/mention]
This is the discussion thread. I did want to point out Ministers not Magisters are soon to be elected. And the typo can easily be fixed.
As for the concern of Magisterium boredom, this is to help provide oversight of the Viceroy. Delegate can veto any laws and The Conclave can still void laws if they are against the Concordant. As of right now the Viceroy can change the requirements for naturalization at will with really no oversight. But this may or may not even need anything to be defined in law but gives oversight if needed. And I don’t see how it could void any citizenship’s because the naturalization process has changed a lot from when I ratified the Concordant from one line to an application but my citizenship is still valid. Why would that change?
Thank you for pointing me to this thread.
Consider the proposed section 3: “Section 3) The Magisterium may, by majority vote, define additional requirements for obtaining Citizenship within the East Pacific.”
It does not reference the law-making ability of the Magisterium in Article B:
— Begin quote from ____
Section 5) The Magisterium shall pass laws by majority vote.
Section 6) The Delegate shall have the power to veto any law passed by the Magisterium.
— End quote
As worded, the new section 3 empowers the Magisterium to change the Concordat-defined requirements for obtaining Citizenship. It does not say that the Magisterium can pass “laws”; it says “define additional requirements.”
I think this is problematic.
Essentially, we have given the Magisterium, by majority vote, with no requirement for approval by the Delegate, the power to amend the citizenship requirements in the Concordat. It doesn’t require any kind of super majority, as all other amendments require, and no confirmation by the citizens themselves. If this amendment is passed, on a day when half the Magisterium is bored, they could vote to require all citizens to have a picture of a marsupial on their flag.
I understand the desire to be able to put more restrictions on citizenship, but this amendment is too broad.
I wouldn’t say we made the situation worse in this case. Instead, we just changed the problem.
'Cuz as Em said, the Viceory could do this without a vote. Or anything.
I’ll wait for others to comment on this. I’m thinking of switching my vote to NAY so that we could fix this, but Imma wait.
The Viceroy’s powers are not the same. “The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.”
Oversight of the naturalization process does not imply an unlimited ability to impose new conditions. These are very different from one another.
And, I don’t think the “What about the Viceroy …” is an appropriate counter argument. If you think the language for the Viceroy is too broad, then offer an amendment to that.
The proposed amendment’s language specifically empowers the Magisterium, without any check or balance.
— Begin quote from ____
If this amendment is passed, on a day when half the Magisterium is bored, they could vote to require all citizens to have a picture of a marsupial on their flag.
— End quote
Max damn us all.
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