Discussion on Article E of the Concordat

The Magisterium
1

— Begin quote from ____

Article E: Citizenship

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat.

Section 2) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

Section 3) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.

— End quote

Simply put, Article E is currently a mess. In fact, it’s apparently been a mess for years without anybody really caring about it. Now we’ve noticed it’s a mess, and are caring about it, so it’s time to fix this shit before we have a security crisis. 
Per the current wording of Article E, all you have to do to become a citizen is ratify the Concordat. That’s it, that’s literally it. You can do it on any venue, and it’s apparently a valid ratification. This obviously needs to be patched, because letting people become citizens via anywhere except this forum is complete subversion of our security apparatus. Personally, I’ve always been fine with the interpretation that there’s acceptable conditions to add on top of Section 1 without issue, but since it seems we’re taking a literal reading of it I think it’s time for a change.

I think the easiest solution here is to more formally codify additional conditions, which can thereafter be established by CitiComm. Section 3 already establishes the Viceroy’s power in terms of overseeing the naturalization process, which you could expand upon to allow for the codification of additional conditions, but I would honestly rather the citizenship process be in the hands of the Magisterium than potentially be at the whims of one person. So, here’s my proposal on the matter.

— Begin quote from ____

Article E: Citizenship

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements necessary for citizenship.

Section 2) The Magisterium may, as a body, pass additional processes and conditions for the attainment of citizenship within the East Pacific on top of residency.

Section 3) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

Section 4) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.

— End quote

I think that’s pretty standard decent stuff. From there we just have the Magisterium codify the CitiComm that the Viceroy is already overseeing as part of their Section 4 duties, and include in that document a couple things that must obviously be fulfilled in any application for it to be seen as acceptable.

While this is only a thread presently related to Article E, I’m seeing some potential issues nestled within Articles F and G as well. Article G mentions Elders, which I can only assume is a rather dated term that needs updating given that nowhere else in the Concordat mentions it. Article F also seems to have some problematic elements, especially if we’re taking a more literal reading of the Concordat lately. Section 2 could be interpreted to say that friendships with enemies of the state could be seen as illegal, and while Section 9 is nice flowery language I think we should take a serious look at it to make sure we’re not accidentally giving something away that could cause problems down the line.

Being perfectly honest, I wouldn’t be opposed to working on a large-scale omnibus amendment that outlines and amends issues that the Concordat may have. It would also give us cause to sit down and go through it with a fine-toothed comb, which is something we don’t often get to do simply because the main body of the Concordat isn’t often too relevant to our day-to-day affairs.

2

Say this amendment passes, and the magisterium passes security measures following it that are roughly equivalent to what the other feeders have. Will people who took advantage of this loophole (assuming there are any) be grandfathered in, or will their status be revoked?

3

— Begin quote from ____

Say this amendment passes, and the magisterium passes security measures following it that are roughly equivalent to what the other feeders have. Will people who took advantage of this loophole (assuming there are any) be grandfathered in, or will their status be revoked?

— End quote

We already have this measure in the Citizenship Act - The East Pacific - Tapatalk. The government will continue acting in accordance with that Act until the Conclave formally makes a ruling stating that the interpretation that has been good for about a decade now is no longer good anymore. I’m hoping we can pass this stop-gap amendment before that comes, so we don’t have to deal with us actively ignoring this pointless literal interpretation of the Concordat that only started existing after a decade of that law being on the books.

4

Further indepth format:

— Begin quote from ____

Article E: Citizenship

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements necessary for citizenship.

Section 2) The Magisterium may, as a body, pass additional processes and conditions for the attainment of citizenship within the East Pacific on top of residency.

Section 3) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

Section 4) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.

Format:
Same
New
Changed

— End quote

On the topic of the changes, I think they’re an absolute must. Fedele’s new RMB-ratification shall not pass.

5

I believe such a blanket mandate to the Magisterium by the Concordat is to be avoided, and at least, limited. Therefore this should include :

  • that such additional requirements are only possible to strengthen the security of the region;
  • whereby any additional requirements, individually or taken together, may not form an undue burden for attaining citizenship;
  • with a right to appeal to the Conclave in case of denial.

We should also clarify the exact role of the Viceroy.

6

Why don’t we just say this? We already have a

— Begin quote from ____

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a nation of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements necessary for citizenship as outlined in law.

Section 2) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

Section 3) Nations that are denied citizenship may file an appeal with the Conclave.

Section 4) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens.

— End quote

The “outlined in law part” lines up the process to the Magisterium law process, outlined in the Concordat. I’ve changed the “resident” qualifier to “nation”. More cut-and-dry.

Section 3 goes for Bach’s suggestion about an appeals process.

7

I want to mention that this is only my opinion on this subject. My opinion. Aelitia disagrees with it.

Hobbes recused due to the involvement of the matter, and Asendavia hasn’t posted yet.

My individual opinion shouldn’t represent how the Conclave, much less the East Pacific, reads/interprets the Concordat.

Also, if TEP as a whole and the Conclave is willing to just accept our previous interpretations on this matter as fully functioning and legal before I brought up my opinion, that’s fine. Even better if the Conclave elevates the issue to a review and enforces a verdict that states that my opinion is wrong and blah blah blah. In all honesty, I’d be for it, because that makes it so the Magisterium can focus on other matters.

Also, I formally apologize for being a person who thinks/analyzes things literally, and has thought in a way different than generations of TEPers have since 2009. If you guys want to ignore my opinion, you’re totally enabled and entitled to do so as well. I have no problemo with that.

8

I have taken Tim and Todd’s drafts and added and removed some stuff.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements necessary for naturalization.

— End quote

I think Tim was close and Todd has a point but I feel that the word should be naturalization since it’s handled by the Viceroy / Conclave / CitiComm.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 2) Residents that are denied Citizenship may file an appeal with the Magisterium.

— End quote

Todd, to Bach’s point, we should have an appeal process. I think Residents sounds better than Nations. Yes I did change that to Magisterium as a checks and balances measure. See my proposed changes to Section 5.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 3) The Magisterium may outline additional processes and conditions for the attainment of Citizenship within the East Pacific on top of residency.

— End quote

Tim for some reason Todd’s proposal for Section 1 got stuck in my head a little. Outlined in law and you know, I think the Viceroy / Conclave / CitiComm should oversee the naturalization process but would it be any harm in having an oversight option? Thoughts?

— Begin quote from ____

Section 4) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

— End quote

I don’t think this one needs any changes.

— Begin quote from ____

Section 5) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens. The Conclave lead by the Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and maintaining a record of all Citizens.

— End quote

Yeah. I did a number on this one. I think one of the issues in the Conclave is too much blanket power is given to the Viceroy. It should be a group effort of the Arbiters, lead by the Viceroy, and that’s why I said Magisterium for the appeal over the Conclave because of the changes I made here they would all be helping each other in this area and no one would have an impartial appeal, if one was submitted. Thoughts?

9

Anyone else?

I like EM’s comments, for what it’s worth, but I don’t want the appeal going to the Magisterium. Citizenship, appeals too, should remain with the Conclave IMO.

10

I still think we should give the Viceory the power to deny or accept naturalization (or citizenship, with the fixed definition).

TEP has been using the naturalization system for years, and should we ever wish to go back to the “everyone can be a citizen” system, well, the Viceory should be able to just accept anyone.

I think a sentence like this would work (as another section, mayhaps)

Section X) The Viceory, in addition to the overseeing of the naturalization process, shall be given the power to accept or deny citizenship, with limitations as pertaining to Section [whatever section has the Magisterium passing law on this stuff].

I think there is a better wording, but basically I wanna say the above + having the right limited to the processes as set by the Magisterium.

11

I would like to push where the Conclave has more general teamwork over the Viceroy having so much power. It’s great to have a leader but it needs a balancing of the workload, in my opinion. So if we like the changes of having the Conclave work together in Section 5 then maybe we can find a compromise of members of each branch set on an appeals council: the Delegate, member of executive like from EPPS, a Vizier, Provost and Viceroy for appeals?

12

I would be okay with that.

I just really want someone to be given some sort of right to grant or deny citizenship, so we don’t have to deal with that issue specifically again.

I think an appeal council could work.

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13

I will come back to the proposed draft later today!

14

Viceroy (working in conjunction with Citcom) reviews citizenship app.

IF PASSES:

  • Goes to administration for security check
  • Administration gives proper masking

IF FAILS:

  • Individual is denied citizenship
  • Citcom or administration provides a reason
  • Individual can appeal to the concalve (or another panel, per EM’s suggestion)

Isn’t this the system we have in place at current? Or the one we hope to have?

15

Yep, that’s what I think the best system we can have right now.

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16

Yes, that’s about right. I mean… The Conclave does have the Public Conciliation Panel, so maybe we can make it law and not simply a Memoranda… maybe something like this:

— Begin quote from ____

Section 2) Residents that are denied Citizenship may file an appeal with the Magisterium naturalization shall be given the option to appeal to a conciliation panel lead by the Viceroy with Arbiters, Delegate, Provost, Viziers and Viceroy-appointed citizens as members.

— End quote

17

Should the delegate really have a part in it?

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18

— Begin quote from ____

Should the delegate really have a part in it?

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— End quote

Per current Viceroy Memoranda, the Delegate already is, so why not continue the triadition? The Delegate ultimately is over regional security with being over the EPPS and EPSA.

19

If I may be so free, I’ve taken the previous drafts and highlighted some proposed refinements (orange) :

— Begin quote from ____

Section 1) A Citizen of the East Pacific is a resident of the East Pacific that has ratified this Concordat, and has fulfilled any additional requirements necessary for naturalization <font color=“#FF9900”>as may be defined by the Magisterium.</font>

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Section 2) Residents that are denied Citizenship may file an appeal with the <font color=“#FF9900”>Magisterium Conclave.</font>

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Section 3) The Magisterium may <font color=“#FF9900”>, by majority vote, define outline additional processes and conditions requirements for the attainment of obtaining Citizenship within the East Pacific on top of residency.</font>

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Section 4) Section 1 notwithstanding, the Magisterium may by majority vote grant honorable Citizenship to any individual, and that individual shall be considered a Citizen thereafter. The Magisterium may by three-fourths majority vote revoke honorable Citizenship from a holder of honorable Citizenship. Revocation of honorable Citizenship does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the individual to acquire Citizenship under Section 1. [2015 Amendment 1]

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Section 5) The Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and the Viceroy shall maintain a record of all citizens. The Conclave lead by the Viceroy shall be charged with overseeing the naturalization process and maintaining a  record of all Citizens.

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

Viceroy (working in conjunction with Citcom) reviews citizenship app.

IF PASSES:

  • Goes to administration for security check
  • Administration gives proper masking

IF FAILS:

  • Individual is denied citizenship
  • Citcom or administration provides a reason
  • Individual can appeal to the concalve (or another panel, per EM’s suggestion)

Isn’t this the system we have in place at current? Or the one we hope to have?

— End quote

I don’t think the possibility to appeal existed.

20

I’d change “defined by the Magisterium” into “codified into law”. Nit-picky, but I think it’s more correct.

Anyone else? What do you think? Can we move on this?