Electing Ministers

Fedele · July 13, 2019, 11:19pm

Llo makes some good points. Another point that doesn’t get discussed openly and needs to be is delegate election fidelity, if you’ll pardon the term. It has quietly been a common practice for years in this region for delegate candidates to promise Minister positions to individuals in order to gain their support. It can be debated how effective this has been but this would nearly eliminate the potential for such influence peddling and ‘selling’ appointed positions to political supporters.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

Marrabuk · July 14, 2019, 8:02am

— Begin quote from ____

I’m in two regions where we do this, Oatland and XKI, and I don’t recommend it. Both frequently have trouble having competitive elections for ministers, and it introduces issues with ministers not sitting out their term. I get why you might want to elect ministers, it’s more democratic and is a good way of getting competing ideas in, but I haven’t seen it work out.

— End quote

I don’t think it not working in two smaller regions is necessarily an argument against it. This also seems like a fairly subjective judgement, as I think if the process was unpopular that the residents there would have already replaced it.

— Begin quote from ____

This is exactly the reason why I heavily disagree with “electing of ministers”. On the surface, it appears as “giving power to the people”, in reality this is about destroying the region’s executive.

If we elect ministers, the ministers answer to the citizens instead of the delegate. We’ll have too many egos on board with different goals. Thus, producing an unproductive and ineffective executive.
Let’s take some example from real life governments. This has never worked and I don’t think it’ll work here. For example, USA, the founding father of Democracy only elects a President but not the Secretary of State and also the Secretary of Defence. Because it won’t work out. The Secretary of State and Secretary of Defence are both appointed by the President. And so does every other democratic country or parliamentary democracy. The Prime Minister appoints their ministers.
The people already have a voice. In the form of electing their Delegate. Voting for their delegate is also a vote of confidence that the delegate will be able to do their job and appoint credible and talented ministers to do the job.
As I have spoken in the magisterium channel on discord. Personally, I’m not in favor of this. We still need an executive “leader” or “figurehead”. Splitting the excecutive bodies will essentially create a many headed snake. Or IRL reference to USA having no presidents but run by The Secretary of Defence and Secretary of state separately. Multiple figureheads have never worked ever in history and I don’t see it working here too. It will lead to “civil wars”

So if we wanna seek to destroy the region. This is the way forward. If we want to see the region thrive, then this idea is going backwards.

— End quote

Firstly, I think its really unproductive to talk about electing ministers in such dire terms. I don’t know what the future is, but I doubt changing one element of the way a handful of ministers are chosen will entirely “destroy the region”. Let’s be reasonable and fair in considering all options.

I think Ministers answering directly to the citizens is a good thing, and them being elected won’t necessarily introduce any more “egos” than there already are. It isn’t as if the Delegate appointing a Minister magically alleviates them of any self-interest, nor makes them any more inherently productive. Also, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that just because the Delegate appoints a Minister that that person will never disagree with them or perhaps be difficult in certain situations, and I believe the same would apply to elected Ministers. Disagreement isn’t necessarily bad, nor is it necessarily unproductive.
Comparing NS to real-life governments is not fair, in my opinion. Does the Fedele administration currently serve millions of people? How much money are we spending exactly on conducting elections? We also don’t elect our legislature, which every RL democratic country does, so should we start doing that too? i.e. not a fair comparison.
I don’t see what is inherently wrong about changing exactly what we vote the Delegate in for. If, as you claim, people are currently motivated to elect a Delegate who they trust can both do their job in leading the region AND also appoint effective Ministers to all departments, then what is wrong with just changing that second part to just crucial departments? The way I see it, the Delegate should be elected on their own merits and be able to appoint Ministers that are absolutely essential to achieving their aims, but it isn’t as if all their appointed Ministers are carbon copies of themselves. Citizens deserve to have a more direct say rather than just ‘trusting the trust of someone else’.
The proposal isn’t at all to remove the Delegate as the leader of the executive branch, as far as I am aware. In fact, the proposal aims to split one Ministry (Information and Culture) and abolish two (Design and Education), thus reducing the total ‘heads of the snake’ by one.

— End quote

a) How many percentage of citizens are actually aware or care about the NS sphere? How informed are they about electing about what’s good for the region instead of electing for someone they think is popular or cool? If it’s the latter, don’t you think that would be a bad idea for the region?
b) Disagreements are good between ministers and Delegate. That’s where different ideas and perspectives are shared. But you don’t see Delegate and ministers opposing and taking on each other, because if that happens, for the benefit of the region and executive, the delegate can just remove that minister and move on. If they are elected, the delegate can’t do that. Therefore, not only creating a very toxic environment, but also a very unproductive one, because nothing will be accomplished this way.
We’re talking about the OPERATIONS of an executive body. Not how much we spend or how many people we serve. Lol, you’re comparing apples and pears.
Again, citizens already gave their voice by electing their Delegate. Again back to my explanation on 1) a). EM actually gave an extremely good proposition, if the citizens and even residents need more voice, we can set up the Minister of Public Affairs. This minister can be elected to represent the voice of the people.
This is a test. Eventually the plan is to elect all ministries and the WA Delegate eventually being just the minister of WA affairs. TEP with no leadership. There is a lot going on behind the scenes. So I thought, I’d just share my piece here before it goes there.

Sent from my Nokia 3310 using Tapatalk.

Zukchiva · July 14, 2019, 12:20pm

— Begin quote from ____

a) How many percentage of citizens are actually aware or care about the NS sphere? How informed are they about electing about what’s good for the region instead of electing for someone they think is popular or cool? If it’s the latter, don’t you think that would be a bad idea for the region?
b) Disagreements are good between ministers and Delegate. That’s where different ideas and perspectives are shared. But you don’t see Delegate and ministers opposing and taking on each other, because if that happens, for the benefit of the region and executive, the delegate can just remove that minister and move on. If they are elected, the delegate can’t do that. Therefore, not only creating a very toxic environment, but also a very unproductive one, because nothing will be accomplished this way.
We’re talking about the OPERATIONS of an executive body. Not how much we spend or how many people we serve. Lol, you’re comparing apples and pears.
Again, citizens already gave their voice by electing their Delegate. Again back to my explanation on 1) a). EM actually gave an extremely good proposition, if the citizens and even residents need more voice, we can set up the Minister of Public Affairs. This minister can be elected to represent the voice of the people.
This is a test. Eventually the plan is to elect all ministries and the WA Delegate eventually being just the minister of WA affairs. TEP with no leadership. There is a lot going on behind the scenes. So I thought, I’d just share my piece here before it goes there.

Sent from my Nokia 3310 using Tapatalk.

— End quote

If I may butt in, not speaking for Llo though.

1a) That’s almost how we elect our Delegate. For Yuno and Fedele, our citizens simply went with the safest and “popular” option. Why is this a problem for Minister elections?

And selecting by popularity is not always bad. When someone has shown their face around the community and shown how they acted, you can see their character and how they function. In such a sense, “popularity” is an advantage because people have a guess, with a campaign and your actual person, how the Ministry will be handled. It gives a fuller aspect.

Though I can see your concern and understand your point. The fact is though, at least for the last two years, people who don’t care about NS TEP but try to vote go for the person Who they know best, which is the most popular person. That’s the Delegate, because the Delegate sends TGs to them and talks with them. In the same vein, it’s possible that popularity may be the sole factor of a vote.

So as was suggested, maybe campaigning and putting a face on the candidates can help us reduce the effect of popularity when voting.

1b) If that really becomes a problem, the Delegate can do a vote of no confidence. No Minister should be disagreeing with the Delegate at every turn, I agree. But in that case, the Delegate needs to speak up and see what other Magisters think about it.

And if it really really is an issue, we can legislate it as a reason for removal in the future.

But that’s the point.

In the USA, constant disagreement can be deadly. 300 million plus people are affected some way or another by the laws enacted by Presidents.

In TEP, our government projects usually do not have as much of an effect. Disagreement may hinder production, but the fact is that none of us will die if the Delegate and Ministers can’t agree on things.

Another fact is that for the most part, the Ministries HAVE been mostly independent. The Delegate, for his administration, mainly provides suggestions for tasks to do, and helps us get the tools we need to reach our goals. He doesn’t take a direct leadership position at all, he more of “guides” the Executive. So in my opinion, we are already a multiple headed snake, with someone giving us suggestions, that we don’t even have to do, to make us better and more powerful.

But more representation never hurts.
I may have been missing something, but my understanding was that half the Ministers would be elected, and the other half would be appointed as above. My sketch is intended to be the entire process, start to finish.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Fedele · July 14, 2019, 12:40pm

For all this talk about ministers theoretically being fiercely opposed to the delegate, I can’t think of any time I’ve ever seen that and I’ve actively appointed people who disagree with me. How radically different can their vision be for the region when we are all governed by the same set of laws? Furthermore, if the people elect a Minister of Information who promised to crowdsource guides and dispatches and the delegate doesn’t like that, what business is it of the delegate? The point is direct representation of the desires of the citizens and God help us if we start electing delegates so opposed to the desires of the people that they can’t facilitate a functional executive.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

Marrabuk · July 14, 2019, 1:29pm

— Begin quote from ____

a) How many percentage of citizens are actually aware or care about the NS sphere? How informed are they about electing about what’s good for the region instead of electing for someone they think is popular or cool? If it’s the latter, don’t you think that would be a bad idea for the region?
b) Disagreements are good between ministers and Delegate. That’s where different ideas and perspectives are shared. But you don’t see Delegate and ministers opposing and taking on each other, because if that happens, for the benefit of the region and executive, the delegate can just remove that minister and move on. If they are elected, the delegate can’t do that. Therefore, not only creating a very toxic environment, but also a very unproductive one, because nothing will be accomplished this way.
We’re talking about the OPERATIONS of an executive body. Not how much we spend or how many people we serve. Lol, you’re comparing apples and pears.
Again, citizens already gave their voice by electing their Delegate. Again back to my explanation on 1) a). EM actually gave an extremely good proposition, if the citizens and even residents need more voice, we can set up the Minister of Public Affairs. This minister can be elected to represent the voice of the people.
This is a test. Eventually the plan is to elect all ministries and the WA Delegate eventually being just the minister of WA affairs. TEP with no leadership. There is a lot going on behind the scenes. So I thought, I’d just share my piece here before it goes there.

Sent from my Nokia 3310 using Tapatalk.

— End quote

If I may butt in, not speaking for Llo though.

1a) That’s almost how we elect our Delegate. For Yuno and Fedele, our citizens simply went with the safest and “popular” option. Why is this a problem for Minister elections?

And selecting by popularity is not always bad. When someone has shown their face around the community and shown how they acted, you can see their character and how they function. In such a sense, “popularity” is an advantage because people have a guess, with a campaign and your actual person, how the Ministry will be handled. It gives a fuller aspect.

Though I can see your concern and understand your point. The fact is though, at least for the last two years, people who don’t care about NS TEP but try to vote go for the person Who they know best, which is the most popular person. That’s the Delegate, because the Delegate sends TGs to them and talks with them. In the same vein, it’s possible that popularity may be the sole factor of a vote.

So as was suggested, maybe campaigning and putting a face on the candidates can help us reduce the effect of popularity when voting.

1b) If that really becomes a problem, the Delegate can do a vote of no confidence. No Minister should be disagreeing with the Delegate at every turn, I agree. But in that case, the Delegate needs to speak up and see what other Magisters think about it.

And if it really really is an issue, we can legislate it as a reason for removal in the future.

But that’s the point.

In the USA, constant disagreement can be deadly. 300 million plus people are affected some way or another by the laws enacted by Presidents.

In TEP, our government projects usually do not have as much of an effect. Disagreement may hinder production, but the fact is that none of us will die if the Delegate and Ministers can’t agree on things.

Another fact is that for the most part, the Ministries HAVE been mostly independent. The Delegate, for his administration, mainly provides suggestions for tasks to do, and helps us get the tools we need to reach our goals. He doesn’t take a direct leadership position at all, he more of “guides” the Executive. So in my opinion, we are already a multiple headed snake, with someone giving us suggestions, that we don’t even have to do, to make us better and more powerful.

But more representation never hurts.
I may have been missing something, but my understanding was that half the Ministers would be elected, and the other half would be appointed as above. My sketch is intended to be the entire process, start to finish.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

— End quote

Great, I have nothing more to add. Thanks for taking the time to answer in details.

Libertanny · July 14, 2019, 4:11pm

— Begin quote from ____

a) How many percentage of citizens are actually aware or care about the NS sphere? How informed are they about electing about what’s good for the region instead of electing for someone they think is popular or cool? If it’s the latter, don’t you think that would be a bad idea for the region?

— End quote

I’m impressed with those questions.

If our citizens are too dumb and not caring enough about GP to elect Ministers, why let them elect the Delegate? That’s a serious question, I would like to hear answer for Magister [mention]Marrabuk[/mention]

Zukchiva · July 14, 2019, 4:28pm

I think Marrabuk actually raises a good point in his post.

A lot of citizens pick the person they know, aka, the most popular. Both, foreign influencers and true citizens who reside in TEP and answer issues.

Unfortunately, I can’t say there is a solution, nor is it unwarranted. If all you did was answer issues, then would you voice support for the people you don’t know? Or the people who TG you on an infrequent basis and communicate with you?

I’m not blaming Fedele, because that’s a part of his job. But the way I see it, the incumbent as the advantage because they show their face the most to the public.

However, this advantage isn’t certain. I would go to say that if the more informed voters were to choose someone else, I think it would be plausible to choose another option than the incumbent.

So I guess, in short, that it’s because while there are such people, the people who do care constitute the majority and they, as a voting block, usually choose the best option.

This is why I think it would be feasible to elect Ministers, and why we elect our Delegate as such.

But I don’t speak for Marrabuk.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Libertanny · July 14, 2019, 4:52pm

[mention]Zukchiva[/mention] nothing limits any of the possible candidates from building their image. You don’t need to be WAD, not even an RO to build influence within The East Pacific or any other region.

If you are working hard enough, your job will be recognized. And that will get you support. Who knows, maybe enough to win WAD elections.

I will make it simple.

Want to get support of Forum RP? Interact with them. Want to get support of Magisterium? Interact with Magisterium. Want to get support of RMB? Interact with RMB.

Really. If given Delegate is being re-elected, it is, because no candidate tried hard enough to be elected. That’s it.

Fedele · July 14, 2019, 5:01pm

These kinds of influential elected positions could be a good way for people to boost themselves to being in contention for a delegate race.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

Zukchiva · July 14, 2019, 5:08pm

— Begin quote from ____

[mention]Zukchiva[/mention] nothing limits any of the possible candidates from building their image. You don’t need to be WAD, not even an RO to build influence within The East Pacific or any other region.

If you are working hard enough, your job will be recognized. And that will get you support. Who knows, maybe enough to win WAD elections.

I will make it simple.

Want to get support of Forum RP? Interact with them. Want to get support of Magisterium? Interact with Magisterium. Want to get support of RMB? Interact with RMB.

Really. If given Delegate is being re-elected, it is, because no candidate tried hard enough to be elected. That’s it.

— End quote

Exactly. But candidates rarely do that.

To the gamesiders, Fedele is the most assessible person to them. I’m not saying that you need any special privalages, heck, you could be a resident until the month you decide to run. But you have to make yourself assessible.

Most people in TEP usually stick to a few communities. While that is changing, it’s still the extreme norm.

That’s why I said, that in a sense, “popularity” is not unwarranted. If people do not reach out and interact with other communities, then it’s really not going to help them in election season. Therefore, the popularity advantage is only an advantage because the other candidates often don’t reach out as far as they should in terms of communicating with TEP’s various communities.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Marrabuk · July 14, 2019, 7:57pm

— Begin quote from ____

a) How many percentage of citizens are actually aware or care about the NS sphere? How informed are they about electing about what’s good for the region instead of electing for someone they think is popular or cool? If it’s the latter, don’t you think that would be a bad idea for the region?

— End quote

I’m impressed with those questions.

If our citizens are too dumb and not caring enough about GP to elect Ministers, why let them elect the Delegate? That’s a serious question, I would like to hear answer for Magister [mention]Marrabuk[/mention]

— End quote

I’m actually done debating in this thread. Like I said, I have nothing more to add.

Funkadelia · July 15, 2019, 12:05pm

— Begin quote from ____

For all this talk about ministers theoretically being fiercely opposed to the delegate, I can’t think of any time I’ve ever seen that and I’ve actively appointed people who disagree with me. How radically different can their vision be for the region when we are all governed by the same set of laws? Furthermore, if the people elect a Minister of Information who promised to crowdsource guides and dispatches and the delegate doesn’t like that, what business is it of the delegate? The point is direct representation of the desires of the citizens and God help us if we start electing delegates so opposed to the desires of the people that they can’t facilitate a functional executive.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

— End quote

I feel like part of the process of choosing ministerial candidates as a voter can be how they will align with the current delegate. Obviously, if you don’t like the delegate you might pick someone with different priorities, but I don’t think it will be anything that causes a civil war.

Escade · July 17, 2019, 2:48am

I mean I’ve seen regions where electing ministers has worked to create drama, activity and also bring in outside influence due to title collectors, but not necessarily activity for the region and also regions where it has worked (but with tighter restrictions). For example, what happens when a delegate is elected who disagrees with the Minister of Foreign Affairs on some treaty or alliance? This can cause friction, tension or even sabotage the relations.

Some regions had a delegate\vice delegate to and the vice delegate oversaw the ministers. Again I also wish it was easier to do trial runs in regions. What if we chose one election cycle to try to do a trial run and the Magisters could then vote on whether to keep the new system or not?

I suppose looking at the other view, perhaps players don’t want the delegate to be the sole hirer of ministers? Another way to work with that is the accountability (trigger an election if the following two conditions are met: 1. Minister has been LoA for more than 1/3 of term 2. Ministry has produced no reports\activity for more than 1/3 of term or 3 weeks etc).

Perhaps there can be some compromise where the delegate elects an official and if they resign or their ministry does nothing for more than (arbitrary number) 1/3 of the term then an election is triggered?

More democracy doesn’t bring meritocracy in NS, in fact it often does the opposite. In regions like TSP, the players in power continuously will do anything to get their own cronies to be “elected.” You see this in elections with puppet nations voting and doing absolutely nothing else in the region but showing up to vote. It’s really an oligrachy masquerading as a democracy. That region also has puppet farms to artificially inflate the nation numbers. I don’t think TEP needs to stoop to that level of “pseudo-democracy.”

My biggest concerns are that, having been inside the ministry for a bit and seen more than a small amount of burn out from players that we need to flesh out the responsibilities of each ministry without making it an impossible task to succeed while still maintaining some form of accountability. Possibly ministers can submit a weekly bullet point list of endeavors (attempted and successful) to the region?

For example,

— Begin quote from ____

"Minister of Foreign Affairs: Baseline duties (to be legislated/debated further), to help maintain, establish, and develop foreign relations with other regions, as well as increasing TEP’s reputation amongst its allies. The ultimate authority is to Delegate.

Minister of the World Assembly: Baseline duties (to be legislated/debated further), shall help education TEP on the World Assembly resolutions, as well as providing advice to the Delegate for the way TEP shall vote on WA affairs. The ultimate authority is to Delegate.

Minister of Regional Affairs: Baseline duties (to be legislated/debated further), Minister tasked with helping other Ministers, guiding them in their tasks and providing whatever help they need or direct them to people who can provide help. Basically, a team leader.

Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army Overseeing Officer: Baseline duties (to be legislated/debated further), shall help maintain and develop the regional military of TEP, and carry out operations, with limitations based on law and the Delegate’s orders. Second-in-command to the Delegate."

— End quote

I like this better than some of the earlier proposals but am a little unsure of Regional Affairs for example as that is not the generally conceived description of RA. “team leader” itself is nebulous in terms of do they lead the team of ministers which can get tricky or are they a support player? I would be resistant to encoding the above without more finessing of the language.

Zukchiva · July 17, 2019, 3:58pm

That’s what I meant to be legislated furrher, and yo be expanded upon. It was just a draft

I know EM was saying that we could try something of a trial run, but I don’t know if that is something we could feasibly legislate in the Concordat. I mean, we can, but I’m not sure if the Concordat is the type of document where we put an expirary date.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Escade · July 17, 2019, 9:30pm

So some further thoughts (and I love that this is a discussion in progress, just some ideas on how to improve it I hope )

Minister of Integration seems like two jobs rather than one. The first job seems to be security based and I’d say instead we should just have an appointed Chief Security Officer who handles that portion of security checks (this should not be an elected position at all ever). The second job is about recruiting, welcoming, integrating and trying to promote growth with new (and older) nations. These are two separate positions and should not be cobbled into one.

Honestly, I think we should have Chief Security Officer (appointed position) and then Ministry of Recruitment and Integration (or Ministry of Engagement as people confuse Integration or forget to do it) as a ministry who’s sole purvey is to recruit new (and older) nations into various parts of the region and to help engage them (it’s also better than Immigration which can be slightly awkward).

Finally, Ministry of Information’s description should be along the lines of “is responsible for the production of a regular publication that represents the official views of the government and reports on government and community events” rather than specify the publications most of which have been defunct or irregular.

Then, Ministry of Information has seen a lot of burn out which I think has to do with the several things but if this becomes the elected position, it feels like we need some sort of requirement or delegate\executive thing where they ask each minister to give a bullet point list of endeavors attempted and accomplished during specified time period. As one of the former MoI who burned out, sometimes it was hard to find out what other ministers were even doing and it feels better if the main authority is the one expecting this accountability every so often (two weeks seems like an appropriate time frame here).

Funkadelia · July 18, 2019, 3:17am

I know I’m just a citizen, but I feel like we’ve had enough discussion here to warrant a full draft of some legislation. Since nobody else seems to have wanted to do it yet, I’ll put what I have out there and try my hand at this. I have purposely left the jurisdictions of the ministries quite broad, but still distinct, so that we have some wiggle room when the rubber meets the road in terms of how these ministries are actually run. I also did not include an “Officer of Justice” because I really don’t think it’s something that’s necessary. Perhaps that can be reviewed at a later date if a need arises.

Please let me know if I missed anything! 🙂

— Begin quote from ____

BE IT ENACTED by the Magisterium of the East Pacific:

SECTION I. SHORT TITLE.
…1.1- This act shall be alternatively known as the “Ministerial Elections Act.”

SECTION II. FINDINGS.
…2.1- The Magisterium finds that:
(1) Democracy could be better served in The East Pacific by electing the executive cabinet;
(2) Policy can be better crafted with a strong blend of personalities and ideas contributing in decision making.

SECTION III. TERMINOLOGY.
…3.1- For the purposes of this act, “Executive Ministries,” or simply “Ministries” are defined as offices within the executive that handle various day to day operations within The East Pacific.
…3.2- For the purposes of this act, “Ministers” are defined as individuals who are assigned to manage executive ministries.
…3.3- For the purposes of this act, “The Cabinet” may be used to refer to the executive as a whole, including any ministers or overseeing officers as well as the Delegate.

SECTION IV. MINISTRY DEFINITIONS.
…4.1- The Ministry of Culture shall exist to be tasked with planning and promoting community events, festivals, and games. The Ministry is also tasked with helping to oversee the role-play community and promoting the unique culture of The East Pacific.
…4.2- The Ministry of Information shall exist to manage and publish all publications and journals officially endorsed by The East Pacific. What constitutes as officially endorsed shall be the responsibility of the Delegate.
…4.3- The Ministry of Integration shall exist to encourage World Assembly membership and participation in endorsements, recruiting new members to the forums and increasing citizenship, and assist with upholding the security of the region through endorsement cap surveillance.
…4.4- The Ministry of Education shall exist to operate the University of The East Pacific. The Minister of Education, also known as the Chancellor of the University of The East Pacific, shall strive to improve education and archival efforts in The East Pacific.
…4.5- The Ministry of Foreign Affairs shall exist to establish, maintain, and develop relations with regions across the world, and enhance the reputation of The East Pacific generally.
…4.6- The Ministry of the World Assembly shall exist to improve awareness across the region with regards to World Assembly proposals and resolutions. This Ministry shall also be tasked with advising the Delegate and the region on any World Assembly proposal that comes to vote.
…4.7- The Ministry of Regional Affairs shall exist to assist the Delegate with the management of day to day operations of the Cabinet. For all intents and purposes, they can be considered the Delegate’s second-in-command.
…4.8- The East Pacific Soverign Army exists as defined by 2012’s East Pacific Sovereign Army Act. They shall be overseen by the Overseeing Officer, as defined by that act.

SECTION V. SELECTION OF MINISTERS.
…5.1- The Ministers of Foreign Affairs, the World Assembly, Regional Affairs, and the Overseeing Officer of The East Pacific Sovereign Army shall serve at the pleasure the Delegate.
…5.2- The Ministers of Culture, Information, and Integration shall be elected by the citizens of The East Pacific on a fixed schedule to occur concurrently with the delegate election.
…5.3- The Chancellor of the University of The East Pacific shall be elected to an indefinite term, with the first Chancellor being elected at the first delegate election after the passage of this act.

SECTION VI. REMOVAL OF MINISTERS.
…6.1- All ministers have the right to resign. Ministers must provide a notice of resignation in a public thread in “The Executive” forum. At that time, they relinquish all ministerial titles and authority.
…6.2- The Magisterium may pass a vote of no confidence in any minister. Any motion regarding a vote of no confidence must have a debate period of at least forty-eight hours after the motion is seconded before it may be brought to a vote. The Delegate may also request a vote of no confidence from the Magisterium, but the Delegate may not motion it to vote or second a motion to vote. Should a vote of no confidence succeed, the minister will relinquish all ministerial titles and authority.
…6.3- The removal of a minister may not be appealed to the Conclave.
…6.3- Upon the resignation or removal of a minister, the Delegate may appoint an interim minister to fill the vacancy until the next election. If the vacancy occurs within one month of the next election, the position must remain vacant.

SECTION VII. ELECTION OF MINISTERS.
…7.1- Elections for any ministries shall be administered in the same manner and at the same time as elections for the delegate. Each ministry requiring an election shall be elected separately and concurrently.

SECTION VIII. ESTABLISHING CLAUSE.
…8.1- Any ministries that may have existed prior to the enactment of this clause shall be considered abolished at the time of enactment.

— End quote

Escade · July 18, 2019, 6:43pm

See previous post about why Minister of Integration needs to be delineated into two parts to cover the two disparate roles.

“…4.3- The Ministry of Integration shall exist to encourage World Assembly membership and participation in endorsements, recruiting new members to the forums and increasing citizenship, and assist with upholding the security of the region through endorsement cap surveillance.”

Otherwise looks like a good start, any comments on further areas for clarification?

Fedele · July 18, 2019, 7:43pm

“What constitutes as officially endorsed shall be the responsibility of the Delegate.”

I recognize that this could be an important check on the power of the Ministry of Information but I’d personally rather this be up to the Minister of Regional Affairs.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

Emjay · July 18, 2019, 9:09pm

— Begin quote from ____

BE IT ENACTED by the Magisterium of the East Pacific:

SECTION I. SHORT TITLE.
…1.1- This act shall be alternatively known as the “Ministerial Elections Act.”

— End quote

I don’t see any issues.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION II. FINDINGS.
…2.1- The Magisterium finds that:
(1) Democracy could be better served in The East Pacific by electing the executive cabinet;
(2) Policy can be better crafted with a strong blend of personalities and ideas contributing in decision making.

— End quote

No issues.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION III. TERMINOLOGY.
…3.1- For the purposes of this act, “Executive Ministries,” or simply “Ministries” are defined as offices within the executive that handle various day to day operations within The East Pacific.
…3.2- For the purposes of this act, “Ministers” are defined as individuals who are assigned appointed or elected to manage executive ministries.
…3.3- For the purposes of this act, “The Cabinet” may be used to refer to the executive as a whole, including any ministers or overseeing officers as well as the Delegate.

— End quote

Per the Concordant the Delegate can still appoint ministers.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION IV. MINISTRY DEFINITIONS.
…4.1- The Ministry of Culture shall exist to be tasked with planning and promoting community events, festivals, and games. The Ministry is also tasked with helping to oversee the role-play community and promoting and the unique culture of The East Pacific.
…4.2- The Ministry of Information shall exist to manage and publish all publications and journals officially endorsed by The East Pacific. What constitutes as officially endorsed shall be the responsibility of the Delegate. assist with the publishing of any officially endorsed publication by the Delegate or official statements from the government of The East Pacific. This ministry shall be responsible with the creation of guides, upkeep of frequently asked questions and ensuring all official threads are up-to-date.
…4.3- The Ministry of Integration shall exist to encourage World Assembly membership and participation in endorsements, endorsement of the Delegate and Viziers, recruiting new members Residents to the regional forums and increasing assisting with citizenship application, and assist with. This ministry shall support the safety andupholding the security of the region through endorsement cap surveillance.
…4.4- The Ministry of Education shall exist to operate the University of The East Pacific. The Minister of Education, also known as the Chancellor of the University of The East Pacific, shall strive to improve education and archival efforts in The East Pacific.
…4.5- The Ministry of Foreign Affairs shall exist to establish, maintain, and develop relations with regions across the world, and enhance the reputation of The East Pacific generally.
…4.6- The Ministry Minister of the World Assembly Affairs shall exist to improve awareness across the region with regards to of World Assembly proposals and resolutions. This Ministry Minister shall also be tasked with advising the Delegate and the region on any World Assembly proposal that comes to vote.
…4.7- The MinistryMinister of Regional Affairs shall exist to assist the Delegate with the management of day to day operations of the Cabinet. For all intents and purposes, they can be considered the Delegate’s second-in-command.
…4.8- The East Pacific Sovereign Army exists as defined by 2012’s East Pacific Sovereign Army Act. They shall be overseen by the Overseeing Officer, as defined by that act.

— End quote

I honestly was not a fan of this section’s wording in a lot of areas. I made some suggestions.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION V. SELECTION OF MINISTERS.
…5.1- The Ministers of Foreign Affairs, the World Assembly Affairs, Regional Affairs, and the Overseeing Officer of The East Pacific Sovereign Army shall serve at the pleasure be appointed by the Delegate.
…5.2- The Ministers of Culture, Information, and Integration shall be elected by the citizens of The East Pacific on a fixed schedule to occur concurrently with the delegate election.
…5.3- The Minister of Education shall serve as the Chancellor of the University of The East Pacific shall be elected to an indefinite term, with the first Chancellor being elected at the first Delegate election after following the passage of this act.

— End quote

Few minor things. Overall no major issues.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION VI. REMOVAL OF MINISTERS.
…6.1- All ministers have the right to resign. Ministers must provide a notice of resignation in a public thread in “The Executive Plaza” forum. At that time, they relinquish all ministerial titles and authority.
…6.2- The Magisterium may pass a vote of no confidence inof any Minister by 2/3 vote
…6.2.1 Any motion regarding a vote of no confidence must have a debate period of at least forty-eight hours after the motion is seconded before it may be brought to a vote.
…6.2.2 The Delegate Any citizen may also request a vote of no confidence discussion from the Magisterium, but the Delegate may not motion it to vote or second a motion to vote. Should a vote of no confidence succeed, the minister will relinquish all ministerial titles and authority.
…6.3- The removal of a minister may not be appealed to the Conclave.
…6.3- Upon the resignation or removal of a minister, the Delegate may appoint an interim minister to fill the vacancy until the next election. If the vacancy occurs within one month of the next election, the position must remain vacant.

— End quote

Let’s give some power to the people. Anyone should be able to request a vote of no confidence discussion. The right to appeal should never be taken away.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION VII. ELECTION OF MINISTERS.
…7.1- Elections for any ministries shall be administered in the same manner and at the same time as elections for the delegate. Each ministry requiring an election shall be elected separately and concurrently.

— End quote

Should we still have instant run off voting? While it should be easy. It never seems to be a simple task. I’m in the minority in this view. Good luck to us.

— Begin quote from ____

SECTION VIII. ESTABLISHING CLAUSE.
…8.1- Any ministries that may have existed prior to the enactment of this clause shall be considered abolished at the time of enactment.

— End quote

As the Delegate can still appoint ministers, as mentioned before, doesn’t make sense without a change to the Concordant to abolish a ministry if the Delegate is still granted that power and freedom.

Overall we should likely add in that the Delegate may create and remove any ministries not listed in this act

Funkadelia · July 18, 2019, 9:52pm

— Begin quote from ____

See previous post about why Minister of Integration needs to be delineated into two parts to cover the two disparate roles.

“…4.3- The Ministry of Integration shall exist to encourage World Assembly membership and participation in endorsements, recruiting new members to the forums and increasing citizenship, and assist with upholding the security of the region through endorsement cap surveillance.”

Otherwise looks like a good start, any comments on further areas for clarification?

— End quote

I don’t think we need that many ministries. We already have the Viziers and Integration to do this. I’m sure the Viziers don’t mind doing that job. 🙂

— Begin quote from ____

“What constitutes as officially endorsed shall be the responsibility of the Delegate.”

I recognize that this could be an important check on the power of the Ministry of Information but I’d personally rather this be up to the Minister of Regional Affairs.

Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk

— End quote

Further defining the objectives of the ministries is up to the head of the executive. However, because of how the law is written, this is something that can be delegated to the MoRA.