TEP Lecture 01: Poverty Reduction

Welcome to the TEP University lecture session. Every week, great thinkers from our nation of the east pacific shall hold talks about social, politicial, economic and security issues of the world. Today, we invited Professor John Pacs from the University of Centreford to talk about the Poverty Reduction.

*Applause as Dr.John enter the room and tookover the mic

Hi I am Dr. John Pacs, Professor of Economics and Social Science in the University of Centreford. I am a economist and I spent my years researching on poverty, wealth distribution, uneven development and inequality around the world.
Basically, this lecture will be about poverty and ways to alleviate those problem.

Let me define what is poverty. Poverty is the lack of basic human needs, such as clean water, nutrition, health care, education, clothing and shelter, because of the inability to afford them. Many believes that a high economic growth will eventually alleviate poverty because it provides job and income for the poors. That not really entirely true. Even if a nation had high GDP, it does not mean that the majority of the people are truely well off. This may due to huge income gaps where a ridiculous amount of wealth concentrated around only a minority of the population while the majority’s income had medium or low level income or live in poverty. A very factor that help to alleviate poverty is to improve the basic security of the people in term of economical, social and political. This will give them a secured access to opportunities which may prevent them from falling back to poverty.

So the question is to ask is what are some measures that can be taken to alleviate this problem?

Legal System. In a developing capitalist country, the poors usually lack of legal protection such as property rights and fair justice. Property rights are legal paper that recognise the individual ownership of the land, house and the property. By recognise the legitmacy and legality of the ownership, it creates asset for the poors and give them access to financial loans such as collateral to start business and protect them from unlawful or unfair land takeover. For example, the farmers can use their lands as collateral to get loan from the bank. The farmer can use the loan to start a business and raise his income level so that he can feed his family.

Subsidies and Incenitives. Subsidies are quite useful to make necessities affordable to the poors but it can be financial strain on the government budgets. It widely recommended to subsidise infrastructure costs, technology, education and healthcare instead of food. This increase poors’ access to technology that help improve their productivity when working or starting small businesses and make medical drug affordable to them. Poor farmers can buy better and affordable tools to grow more crop, thereby increasing productivity and personal income. Local village can buy cheap water filter and medical drug for reducing risk of diseases and health problem. Better and affordable education give them skills to find job with better income.

Another way was to introduce incentive for poors to work and learn. The old saying " Give a man fish and you will fed him for life, Teach him how to fish and he fed for himself " is very true. Incentive made people to do things. Rather than feed Government or charities can reward the poors if they managed to do some work like building local infrastructures for their communities and learning new skills. Reward can be in a form of cash, food, necessities or tools. It also part of the learning process and encourage them to be dependent on themselves.

Capital Access. People who are poor usually lack of opportunities access to wealth because of geographic, political and social reasons. One of the ways is to increase financial services to the poors such as microcredit, microfinances, insurance and saving accounts. Government can provide incentives to establish and invest in rural banks. The poors can use microloans to set up small business and local villages can borrow funds to build infrastructure for their communities. This increase number of job and economic growth in those poor areas. Some economist even suggested to allow farm animals such as pig and cow to use as collateral for loans.

Infrastructure. Infrastructure is considered fundamental for the growth and development of the economy. Infrastructure such as school, hospital, roads, railway, dam and irrigation sysytem can help to improve living standards of the locals. Government should enact policies to encourage investment in the undeveloped region which will generate large number of jobs and businesses. Well developed infrastructure also help to facilitate better trade and investment into the rural areas.

Technology. Another way to alleviate poverty is by introducing technology to the poors. It will enhanced their productivity of work and raised income levels. Also, it can overcome geographic factors such as the climate and the environment which prevented them from moving out of the poverty cycle. For example, irrigation system provides stable water supply for crops while chemical fertiliser increases crop output per land, thus both increase productivity and more crops, hence for income for the farmers. A famous example was the Green Revolution when new agricultural technology is introduced to third world country such as China and India in the 1940s, this increase food production of the world and mitigate problem of world hunger.

Technology also help the poors by connecting them to the market and capital. Introduction of mobile phones and internet allows the poors to better access to the market. The knowledge of the global commodity prices allow them to sell their product at a greater profits, thereby raising income level and standard of living. Fund transfer such as remitance and loan are safer for the poors.

Coming to the end of the lecture, I had some personal opinion which some might disagree. Sometimes, it is not to judge on how great nation is through its military mights, its vast wealth and political influence, but it is to judge how great nation treats its worst. Thank you.

  • Applause

Dear lord.

Please keep this man away from government positions and the voting booth.

Amen.

So basically what you are saying is that we should subsidize the shit out of everything and give it to the poor for free or a reduced price. What world do you live in where this plan wouldn’t collapse an entire nation?

"As far as I see, providing everything to the poor only proliferates the situation, not solves it. Only the Infrastructure section makes sense to me economically.

And the saying is ‘give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life.’"

Anton quietly sits down after his statements.

— Begin quote from ____

The farmer can use the loan to start a business and raise his income level so that he can feed his family.

— End quote

What’s wrong with the agrarian lifestyle? It has long been the foundation on which a successful civilization has stood.

— Begin quote from ____

Another way was to introduce incentive for poors to work and learn. The old saying " Give a man fish and you will fed him for life, Teach him how to fish and he fed for himself " is very true. Incentive made people to do things. Rather than feed Government or charities can reward the poors if they managed to do some work like building local infrastructures for their communities and learning new skills. Reward can be in a form of cash, food, necessities or tools. It also part of the learning process and encourage them to be dependent on themselves.

— End quote

I think you misunderstand the parable in that saying. Incentives qualify as the first half: giving the fish. It is a short term solution to a long-term problem. A very recent example is the massive Wall Street Bailout in the United States.

— Begin quote from ____

A famous example was the Green Revolution when new agricultural technology is introduced to third world country such as China and India in the 1940s, this increase food production of the world and mitigate problem of world hunger.

— End quote

China, as recently as February of this year, halted reforestation efforts in fear of looming food shortages. I do not have a source, but I recall there being shortage issues in the country’s reserve farmland. Even with modern methods, British Grand Pacific, without counting on its fisheries, would require nearly 25,000,000 hectares of farmland to feed it’s population each year (going with a diet of about 2,500 calories per person per day).

The US felt the pinch in recent years. The massive changeover to bio-diesel crops led to “rationing” of grain products in the supermarkets. Albertson’s and Wal-Mart limited their stocks of dried rices and pastas for a couple months.

The term “the poors” is pretty damned insensitive/elitist.

— Begin quote from ____

Dear lord.

Please keep this man away from government positions and the voting booth.

Amen.

So basically what you are saying is that we should subsidize the shit out of everything and give it to the poor for free or a reduced price. What world do you live in where this plan wouldn’t collapse an entire nation?

— End quote

In a society run like the Pax.

In reality, what this leads to is a public takeover of wealth. While it can be argued both ways, bad and good, the elite generally are pretty good at keeping it from happening. What would keep the society in question from collapsing, is a form of volunteer slavery. While this sounds bad, and conjures very bad images, what it actually entails is a society where personal gain has become taboo, and people do what needs to be done out of a need to keep society going.

The great tradeoff is

Capitalism: Con: You have poor. You have lots of poor. If let completely unchecked, this leads to a plutocracy.
Pro: Personal wealth is a great motivator, and this system generally leads to faster progress and industry.

Socialism: Con: There is no great motivator to keep the masses moving into the “hard” jobs.
Pro: Once established, this leads to either no, or minimal poverty. Also, this can lead to a more sustained infrastructure and production.

Mod intervention:

Looks to me like this thread is written IC’ly. :stuck_out_tongue: All of you who responded will need to edit your posts accurately to reflect the IC nature of this post.

:slight_smile:

“Excuse me sir,” Alexis spoke, already speaking as she raised her hand. “I have a question. If what you say is the solution to the issue of poverty, why have we not yet as an entire human society seen the abolishment of poverty? Since the dawn of civilization back about 5000 years ago, we have seen many government changes and cultural changes. Our world has witnessed one popular opinion and the next. Throughout all of these changes, poverty still existed. Do you think perhaps there is more behind the nature of the individuals in society and poverty? That perhaps the individual is more responsible for his or her financial situation than any government or society?”

Smiling Alexis put down her hand and took back up her pen, waiting to write her thoughts to the professor’s answer.

— Begin quote from ____

Good question. Usually, people who are trapped in poverty is not because they are lazy to work or they had bad financial management but it is because they do not have much opportunities to pull themselves out of that situation.

Smiling Alexis put down her hand and took back up her pen, waiting to write her thoughts to the professor’s answer.

— End quote

— Begin quote from ____

“Excuse me sir,” Alexis spoke, already speaking as she raised her hand.  “I have a question.  If what you say is the solution to the issue of poverty, why have we not yet as an entire human society seen the abolishment of poverty?  Since the dawn of civilization back about 5000 years ago, we have seen many government changes and cultural changes.  Our world has witnessed one popular opinion and the next.  Throughout all of these changes, poverty still existed.  Do you think perhaps there is more behind the nature of the individuals in society and poverty?  That perhaps the individual is more responsible for his or her financial situation than any government or society?”

Smiling Alexis put down her hand and took back up her pen, waiting to write her thoughts to the professor’s answer.

— End quote

Good question. Usually, people who are trapped in poverty is not because they are lazy to work or they had bad financial management but it is because they do not have much opportunities to pull themselves out of that situation. Factors such as natural disasters, wars, climate and corrupt leadership which limits their oppportunities to get a job, education, good health and legal protection. What the government can do is to remove or overcome the barriers and give them the chances to succeed and move out of the poverty cycle. Not only that, we are talking about poverty in a millions of people and sometimes, country had more than 50% of the population in poverty.

And I agree to a certain extent that changes around the world and poverty still exist in many countries. Why? Well, lack of good governance is the problem. Rampant corruption, discrimination and wars disrupted the process of poverty reduction. So, it is regards to whether or not there is a political will to address this issue. And to a certain extent, culture and societal issues also come in place. For example in RL, Southern India is usually more developed than Northern India. This is due a hindu caste system where it is still practise much in the north but abandoned in the south. But this is also down to political will and government decision to build a cohesive and non discriminative society. And this is equvalent to peace and equality. If we had more peace and equality, the poverty will be much more manageable and eventually it can be wipeout.

— Begin quote from ____

— Begin quote from ____

The farmer can use the loan to start a business and raise his income level so that he can feed his family.

— End quote

What’s wrong with the agrarian lifestyle? It has long been the foundation on which a successful civilization has stood.

— Begin quote from ____

Another way was to introduce incentive for poors to work and learn. The old saying " Give a man fish and you will fed him for life, Teach him how to fish and he fed for himself " is very true. Incentive made people to do things. Rather than feed Government or charities can reward the poors if they managed to do some work like building local infrastructures for their communities and learning new skills. Reward can be in a form of cash, food, necessities or tools. It also part of the learning process and encourage them to be dependent on themselves.

— End quote

I think you misunderstand the parable in that saying. Incentives qualify as the first half: giving the fish. It is a short term solution to a long-term problem. A very recent example is the massive Wall Street Bailout in the United States.

— Begin quote from ____

A famous example was the Green Revolution when new agricultural technology is introduced to third world country such as China and India in the 1940s, this increase food production of the world and mitigate problem of world hunger.

— End quote

China, as recently as February of this year, halted reforestation efforts in fear of looming food shortages. I do not have a source, but I recall there being shortage issues in the country’s reserve farmland. Even with modern methods, British Grand Pacific, without counting on its fisheries, would require nearly 25,000,000 hectares of farmland to feed it’s population each year (going with a diet of about 2,500 calories per person per day).

The US felt the pinch in recent years. The massive changeover to bio-diesel crops led to “rationing” of grain products in the supermarkets. Albertson’s and Wal-Mart limited their stocks of dried rices and pastas for a couple months.

The term “the poors” is pretty damned insensitive/elitist.

— End quote

I agree that the agriculture is the foundation of a civilisation but you need realise that for the development of the nation and the economy, the majority of labour force need to move from primary industry (resource extraction) to secondary industry (manufacturing) and tertiary industry (services). Secondary and tertiary industry provides better income for the people as they produce high value goods and services. And most low income group are based on agriculture.

By definition, incentives are monetary or non monetary assistance to motivate people to do something. There are good incentives and bad incentives. Good incentives encourage people to work and be independent while bad incentives can encourage people to be lazy and dependent on others. So, what I trying to refer here is the good incentives that allow people to be dependent and work for themselves.

And for the case of China, only about 15% of the land is suited for growing crops. Property right are not well developed in China as most land are considered, owned by the government. Farmer retain the right to use the land but they cannot sell or lease it. When economic grow and the farmer move to city for better jobs, the land is let to idle and agricultural productivity goes down. So, it is not just that they had a shortage of land but they lack appropriate management and land reform to improve productivity and usage of the land. Another important thing about poverty reduction is to curb population growth through family planning. Lower population means less expense and less resources spent. But in a NS world, population seems to grow without a limit.

— Begin quote from ____

Dear lord.

Please keep this man away from government positions and the voting booth.

Amen.

So basically what you are saying is that we should subsidize the shit out of everything and give it to the poor for free or a reduced price. What world do you live in where this plan wouldn’t collapse an entire nation?

— End quote

I never say bindly subsidises everything for the poors. I recommend subsidise item that will help the poors in the long run such as working tools, education and medical drug. In order to make healthcare affordable to the poor, China subsidises basis drug and medical costs. Some cities subsidies the cost of transport fees for schooling children. In RL developed countries like Singapore, healthcare is subsidised according to the income of the individual and household and they only spend 3% GDP on healthcare with the some of the best healthcare system in the world. Education cost can also be subsidised which make it more affordable for low income family to send their children to schools. Education is so important as it allows people to find better job and break out of poverty cycle. By giving low income group’s child easier access to education, you are giving them skills that will help them proceed to better income and higher standard of living in the future. Healthy and educated people allows the nation to grow and developed.

The success and cost of subsidies really depended on what type of thing the government intended to subidise. It is widely not recommended to subisidise daily commodities such as petrol and food. Subsidising education and healthcare require lesser funds but it benefits more for the people and the country.