Now that you have registered on the forum, can you pledge loyalty to the East?
“Nah.”
Ok, have some legal protections.
Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk
That’s why I believe it should be still define what a unprotected or non-loyal resident is vs a protected or loyal resident. Anyone can join the forum and RP but for greater access should be a citizen. I would still advocate having a Resident mask if they wish to join to be involved with non-citizen areas like the Arcade, RP, or WA center but they wouldn’t fall into a special category.
The whole crux of the matter is to grant some form of protection to people in our region that, by definition, have not subscribed to the Concordat. As far as I understand, it is not about loyalty, or asking for some proof of loyalty.
I’m not sure I understand why Zuk and EM insist on the categories of protected and unprotected residents. I chose to simplify to one category (verified) because forum registrations are an objective element to verify. Also, if you define a protected resident, there’s no need to define an unprotected one, because any resident that does not fit the definition of protected, is unprotected anyway.
Maybe EM and/or Zuk can further explain what they exactly aim for, and I’d be willing to revise the draft one more time?
After some talks with EM, I’ve amended my draft as follows.
Basically, we decided that it makes more sense to only distinguish between protected and unprotected Residents, scrapping the verified residents. Protected residents essentially includes both Nations that either join the forum (for various reasons, such as roleplays, diplomats, cultural activities, in search of information, …) or that apply for the WA and endorse the Delegate and Viziers. It does not matter why they do not apply for Citizenship for them to be considered “protected”. The proposed protections are very basic, they reinforce TEP’s system of rule of law, and pose no tangible risk to TEP security.
It should be noted, for the avoidance of doubt, that in this proposed version of article F, Citizen means Citizen, Nation means Nation, and Resident means Resident. So no continuation of the previous interpretation that nation means Citizen in this article.
New draft :
— Begin quote from ____
Bill on the Rights of Citizens, Residents and Nations of The East Pacific
WHEREAS the Concordat of the East Pacific grants rights and protections to the Citizens of TEP;
WHEREAS the Concordat does not recognize any such protections nor rights to the residents nor individual Nations of the East Pacific;
WHEREAS the Nations of the East Pacific wish to secure the necessary rights and protections for all Nations and Residents of the East Pacific under the Concordat;
NOW THEREFORE, the Magisterium enacts as follows :
…1. “Article F: Rights of Citizens” of the Concordat shall be renamed “Article F : Rights of Citizens, Residents and Nations of The East Pacific”.
…2. Sections 2,7 and 9 of Article F of the Concordat shall be removed, and the other current Sections of Article F shall be renumbered accordingly. Said Sections 2 and 7, as before said renumbering, shall be added as new Sections 13 and 14 respectively. Section 9, as before said renumbering, shall be added as a new Section 15.
…3. After Section 6 of Article F of the Concordat, as renumbered by article 2 of this Bill, the following Sections will be added:
“Section 7) A Resident is a nation that resides in the East Pacific.
Section 8) A Protected Resident is a Resident that either has endorsed the Delegate and the Viziers or has joined the regional forums of The East Pacific.
Section 9) Each Protected Resident shall have the right to free speech and the government shall take no action to limit this except when determined to be a public nuisance by the Viceroy in a summary judgement without trial.
Section 10) Protected Residents can appeal actions taken against them by the regional authorities to the Viceroy, who shall rule by summary judgement without trial.
Section 11) Protected Residents, Residents and nations who are not Citizens, shall have no right to a trial by the Conclave, nor any right to be represented by legal counsel.
Section 12) Protected Residents may not serve in any office of the East Pacific government.”
Enactment
This bill shall come into effect upon its ratification by the Citizens of the East Pacific voting in a referendum administered by the Conclave, as set out in Article G of the Concordat.
— End quote
EM’s original draft:
[spoiler]Article G: Residents
Section 1) A Resident is a nation that resides in The East Pacific.
Section 2) A unprotected Resident is a nation that has not endorsed the Delegate and Viziers.
Section 3) A protected Resident is a nation that has endorsed the Delegate and Viziers but has not joined the regional forum.
Section 4) A verified Resident is a protected Resident that has joined the regional forums or official Discord server(s) of The East Pacific but has not ratified the Concordat.
Section 5) The Delegate shall be charged with maintaining a record of all verified Residents.
Article H: Protections, Restrictions and Rights of Residents
Section 1) Unprotected Residents have no protections or rights.
Section 2) Each protected and verified Resident shall have the right to free speech and the government shall take no action to limit this except when a Resident is determined to be acting deliberately to cause a public nuisance by the Delegate and Regional Officers.
Section 3) Protected Residents can appeal actions taken against them to the Delegate or Viziers.
Section 4) Verified Residents can appeal actions taken against them to the Viceroy.
Section 5) Protected and verified Residents do not have the right of legal counsel or a trial before the Conclave.
Section 6) No banned resident can become a citizen.
Section 7) Each Resident nation may enter and leave the region freely, unless that nation has been banned.
Section 8) No Resident may serve in any office of The East Pacific government.
Article I: Amendments
Section 1) This Concordat shall take effect following a simple majority ratification vote of nations of The East Pacific publicly on the offsite forums, to be overseen by the Elders.
Section 2) The East Pacific Elders shall oversee the first elections for Delegate and Magisterium following the successful completion of the ratification process. This voting shall take place publicly on the offsite forums. The Elders shall cease to function thereafter.
Section 1) The Magisterium shall have the authority to propose an amendment to this Concordat by a 2/3 vote; such an amendment must receive the support of 3/4 of those Citizens voting in a referendum administered by the Conclave.
Section 2) Any changes made to the Concordat shall result in a new citizenship topic started with the amended Concordat in it. The former citizenship thread will be linked in that first post. [2013 Am 1, §8]
[/spoiler]
Actual changes to the Concordat:
[spoiler]
Article F: Rights of Citizens, Residents and Nations of The East Pacific
Section 1) Each citizen shall have the right to free speech and the government shall take no action to limit this except when a citizen is determined to be acting deliberately to cause a public nuisance by the Conclave.
Section 2) Each nation shall have the power to make such alliances as it sees fit, so long as these alliances do not act against the East Pacific, nor violate this Concordat.
Section 32) Each citizen shall have the right to a swift and impartial trial by the Conclave if action is taken against them by the regional authorities.
Section 43) No citizen shall be tried twice for the same offense.
Section 54) No citizen shall be forced to incriminate itself.
Section 65) Each citizen shall have the right to legal counsel in a trial before the Conclave.
Section 7) Each nation may enter and leave the region freely, unless that nation is convicted of a crime by the Conclave. Citizens shall upon leaving the region surrender any governmental roles outlined in this Concordat and unless granted honorable citizenship may not hold such roles until they return.
Section 86) Each citizen shall be free to serve in any office in the East Pacific but no nation shall be granted a title of nobility by the government of the East Pacific, nor will such titles granted outside the East Pacific be favored above that of Citizen of the East Pacific. [2014 Am 5]
Section 9) All rights not in this Concordat described or reserved to the government shall remain in the hands of the individual nations.
Section 7) A Resident is a nation that resides in the East Pacific.
Section 8) A Protected Resident is a Resident that either has endorsed the Delegate and the Viziers or has joined the regional forums of The East Pacific.
Section 9) Each Protected Resident shall have the right to free speech and the government shall take no action to limit this except when determined to be a public nuisance by the Viceroy in a summary judgement without trial.
Section 10) Protected Residents can appeal actions taken against them by the regional authorities to the Viceroy, who shall rule by summary judgement without trial.
Section 11) Protected Residents, Residents and nations who are not Citizens, shall have no right to a trial by the Conclave, nor any right to be represented by legal counsel.
Section 12) Protected Residents may not serve in any office of the East Pacific government.
<font color=“#6AA84F”>Section 13) Each nation shall have the power to make such alliances as it sees fit, so long as these alliances do not act against the East Pacific, nor violate this Concordat.
Section 14) Each nation may enter and leave the region freely, unless that nation is convicted of a crime by the Conclave. Citizens shall upon leaving the region surrender any governmental roles outlined in this Concordat and unless granted honorable citizenship may not hold such roles until they return.
Section 15) All rights not in this Concordat described or reserved to the government shall remain in the hands of the individual nations.
</font>
[/spoiler]
— Begin quote from ____
It does not matter why they do not apply for Citizenship for them to be considered “protected”.
— End quote
Hold up. Can you explain why that doesn’t matter? These are nations that have crossed all of the normal claimed inconveniences to becoming a citizen and have simply chosen to not ratify the concordat. Their reason for choosing not to ratify the concordat strikes me as being important. Can you explain why you feel that does not matter?
Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk
It does not matter in that sense that the bill does not discriminate residents as to the grounds of them not applying for Citizenship. As I pointed out before, the goal of the legislation is to establish some more universal protections not dependent on Citizenship. From that perspective, the question why one doesn’t have Citizenship, doesn’t really matter much.
Additionally, these are not nations that have done everything Citizens do. These are nations of TEP that either only have joined the WA and endorsed the Delegate and Viziers, or either only have registered on the forums, without anything more than that.
I believe if they join the forum they are here for citizenship or roleplay the majority of the time.
This proposal is to give some very basic protections to residents that are active in the community and endorsing the Delegate and Viziers but have no interest in joining the forum or might want to RP but have no interests in citizenship. While they are not citizens, that would be our ultimate goal in getting them to become involved in government, we should still recognize their loyalty.
We need to adapt to the trends of the people that are joining TEP and I believe TEP is two years behind in this ball game. The previous administration made TEP more elitist and that’s how the vast majority of the RMB community views us and we’re really not but that’s a common misconception.
I support the newest version of Bach’s draft! Over the others, I think it makes the most sense.
I support Bach’s answer to Fedele’s question as well.
I support the draft as well. I feel that it focuses on what is important. The endorsements! Those nations should be protected under the law.
I motion my latest draft to a vote.
Seconded
From Bachs draft:
Changes I would suggest:
I would say Section 9; 10 shall be a right for all nations in The East Pacific.
Section 11
Each nations within The East Pacific shall have right to a trial by the Conclave, and right to be represented by legal counsel.
" Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. "
Sent from my Pirate ship using bottle mail
While these suggestions are of course possible, it goes way beyond the scope of the proposals done by EM or me. Given that more or less agreement among several magisters was found around those terms, I don’t know if there’s an appetite to go even further on this. I also envisage security problems if we have to grant any nation whatsoever a trial - that could become unworkable in certain circumstances.
I still don’t understand what the purpose is of granting protections to somebody who registered on the forum but chose not to become a citizen. why would they choose not to be a citizen? Is it because they have an aversion to pledging loyalty to the region or adherence to the concordat?
Also, what coup attempt is so transparent as to not endorse the delegate?
Sent from my BlackBerry Pearl using Tapatalk
Are you suggesting we exclude nations who have a forum account but aren’t a citizen from receiving residsnt rights?
Or are you suggesting that rights shouldn’t be given to any resident because they have pledged nada to TEP?
Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
To me it’s very simple:
You want protection, then make the small effort to become a citizen.
If you can’t be bothered, that’s an individual decision with consequences.
I think that’s more your perspective than understanding, which is fine.
I can only supply my understanding but can’t help beyond that. If it doesn’t help, then idk.
Symbolically, every nation deserves the right to appeal IC bans, and many do appeal to the Delegate for help.
This just puts those appeals into law and giving residents the back-up of the government, by law, to appeal the ban. But, instead of allowing residents to appeal their ban to the Delegate or RO who banned them, they will be directed to the Viceory who will often be a neutral third party between the RO/Delegate who banned and the resident who was banned, so they get a more fair appeal. This doesn’t mean they can’t appeal to the Delegate, still. But the Viceory can be brought into such circumstances if needed
Honestly, everyone should have the right to fight an IC ban if it was done without due cause. But this is putting it into law.
Practically, it checks the Executive’s power to ban any resident, and thus prevents possible abuse of power.
*forgot a clause, my apologies
Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
Indeed everyone should have the right to appeal an IC ban with a fair judgment, yet this bill puts TEP into a security risk which can not be unnoticed.
Allow me to clarify. This legislation should have been summed up in two lines.
All nations residing in The East Pacific have a right to appeal a regional ban by going to the Viceroy who shall quickly decide on the validity of the ban.
The Viceroy shall present his judgement to the Delegate who has final say.
In that case, we may as well scrap this entire thing and focus on other items.
Giving the Delegate the final say just legthens the process and changes almost nothing, essentially, besides the Delegate having to waste his and the Viceory’ s time with an appeal when it’s obvious the Delegate will most likely just say no.
This could also happen with most RO bans, as well.
Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk