Government Reform

Library of Gnidrah The East Pacific Archive Kelssek Legislative Records
21

Just to weigh in my thoughts, at one point we were doing all rather well. We had the OOC forums going extremely well and a group of us were happily active and chatting away, me, Reziel, Black Panther Cats, Really Nice Hats, and others. But these things always end, and that was no exception.

If we get can get OOC games and discussion going again then that would be a great step in the right direction.

Personally, I need to start RPing again. I love doing it, but it’s just a time thing.

Aside from that, I feel real leadership is needed. In the current state of affairs, an inactive (however busy IRL) delegate is simply unworkable, and at worst reckless for the region’s security.

To throw in a shock, elections for the delegacy? As far I know, TEP is the only feeder not to have elections as I would consider the PRP Senate voting a form of election. Although IC I hold no strong belief in democracy, I am sure it would raise activity, and leave us with a leader who we all believe in.

22

Just a few quick thoughts…

The Social and Technical catagory forums really need some descriptions under the titles. It helps direct people to what their looking for, and frankly, as they are now, it looks like you don’t care about those forums.

I also notice that you have the Administrative Announcements forum designated as your news forum, so that shows up as 'The East Pacific latest news" towards the top of the board. It’s usually best to have your news forum in the top catagory, so users can find the news quickly and easily.

A technical forum is good to have in the first catagory too, so your new users can quickly find a place for technical help. You don’t want them to have to search around for it, and then get frustrated and leave. Think in terms of RL Customer Service.

I agree that getting a functional, active government is critical. That active government is what brings in new members, welcomes them, provides opportunites, directs them to those opportunities, keeps prodding things to be active, etc.

I also agree with the OOC games. It’s easy to underestimate their value. It’s a quick and easy place for people to become aquainted without any pressures or worries.

For an easy basic type RP, how 'bout a ‘Main Street’ ? Let individuals open up their own shops. Someone can have a map making service, another a flag making service, another one serves various kinds of tea. Another one books your travel plans. Really light RP, with each a narrow purpose that doesn’t overwhelm the newcomer.

23

Reziel, how can you tell people i´m as mad as horse? I´m yet to find a horse as mad as me! Poor horses… :slight_smile:

24

Would the delegate care to give his opinion on this rather important matter?

25

Yes, I would love to. [But I’m still at work, so I’ll have to do so, when I’m at home.]

26

Alright. Well, I’ve seen a lot of recommendations, here. A lot of them I agree with; some already implemented. So let me just briefly touch base on some of the more pressing thoughts of mine, that are the result of reading this thread and jotting down notes.

Firstly, let’s talk about RP. I’m an RPer, myself. I know what to do, and how to do it, most of the time. Granted I haven’t picked up my RP in a while; but I will, in time, after my other priorities here are in motion. But not everyone knows how to RP, even if they want to, and even if they “watch and learn,” so to speak. For this reason, I believe there is a need for guides, as mentioned, for such elements as writing style, realistics, simple rules of RP to keep the RP Admin and Mods off your back, lol. …a school of learning for new RPers, if you will. As for the tier system, I would like to see something put in place that lessens the fear factor of newcomers, and allows them to slide right into light RP, and eventually encourages them to “level-up” to moderate and even heavy RPs. And I agree that the key figures of this region (such as government leaders, officials, “oldbies,” and so on) need to actively pursue a quick and continuous “relationship” with newcomers, and light/moderate RP (such as the RMB, games, other social activities, even entry-level government activity, etc.) is perhaps one of the best ways we can make that happen. But, I’m more of a government-oriented player, myself, so I’d like to leave the RP decisions up to those who are deep into the different aspects of RP – advisors, of sorts. Moving on to my closer interest…

I’d like to talk about government, secondly. As I mentioned: entry-level positions. We have a few of those, with barristers, magisters and ambassadors. But I would like to see more; at least, more of an emphasis on legislators and diplomats, as our judicial branch isn’t exactly in a pressing need of lawyers… With the creation of such an immigration department, as discussed, perhaps a team of newcomers could be solicited to recruit more newcomers. This department would obviously be led by a senior member, with a passion for new blood. We have a pretty good system for the RMB, right now, but it could use some improvements. I’d like to see a more-active RMB, with even less spam getting through and staying visible for a while. Perhaps an organized team of several, new and old members alike, could pick up the task of continuously bombarding the RMB with at least one welcome message with important links, such as immigration, UN polls, regional news, and so on; and the other nine with friendly, funny banter, of some sort.

As far as top-level government is concerned, I disagree with the need of a “Prime Minister” and elections for the Delegate. The way it is setup now, according to the charter, the Delegate is appointed, and remains so until either a new Delegate is appointed or the current one is incapacitated, in which case, the Grand Vizier is to step in, and so on. Of course, there is the threat that the Delegate might lose focus and drag the region down with (such as what happened with me), but then there is also the chance that he or she might get his or her act together and get back in line (such as what is currently happening). But I no longer see that as an issue, in the continuation of my term.

As for the Grand Vizier, I’d like to see more power bestowed upon the position. Right now, the position is essentially a security measure, and a fall-back. I’d like to see it become a more active part of the day-to-day government, overseeing the cabinet. But I would like to see the position split into two – an interior Grand Vizier and an exterior Grand VIzier. We might need to come up with slightly-altered titles, of course, but that’s not as important as figuring out what they are to be doing. The IGV would be responsible for overseeing such cabinet members as those who are strictly intrarregional – Attorney General, Solicitor General, etc. The EGV would be responsible for overseeing such cabinet members as those who are strictly interregional – Ambassador General, United Nations Liaison, Director of Immigration, etc. Whatever cabinet we come up with, that’s how I’d like to see it divided, yet united, as the Delegate would oversee the two GVs. Hopefully, this system would incite a more-active, more-accountable government, and not let the top members sit in idle while the rest of the region looks at us like, “Hello, are you there?!” I’m open to suggestions on how to make this work efficiently and effectively.

Now, before I close with this reply, I’d like to touch on one other issue: military. Our region is a neutral one. It has been and will be, at least, so long as my administration is in place. That being said, that’s not to say we need to sit back and carelessly pretend there isn’t the possibility of an attack, of some sort. Granted, I’m not quite clear on how militaries work in this world of NS; but I would like to see us have an active, defensive military established and in order. Do not misunderstand: I do not want an active military that goes out to assist interregional militaries. This would strictly be a domestic military in the interest of defending our nations…our sovereignty. Given I’m not sure how this would work, I’m seriously asking for suggestions, from those wiser than me with regards to regional military, or our “Regional Guard,” for the time being.

Alright. Well, that’s all I have, for now. I may think of some other things to mention, later on. But for now, I’d like to open the floor for responses to my reply. Thanks.

EDIT: One more thing about having two GVs…it would ideally provide us with just that much more security. The question would be, which one would take over, in the event the Delegate is incapacitated? Should we have three, in that case, or whichever one is in a better position to take over, or what? Also, I agree that we need a security team, set in place to have a higher endorsement count than non-appointed nations, but less than the Delegate and Grand Vizier(s).

27

I’m not an RP type myself, and I’m not inclined to try to get into it. However, I think TEP has the opportunity and potential to be come the premier center for RP in NS. You mentioned the idea of a school for RP, and that would be perfect. There used to be the old NS RP University that is long gone and never replaced. So the opportunity is available.

I can see how having the two Vizier positions could very well work. An Interior Vizier overseeing Internal Affairs, Judicial matters, and facilitating the legislative body. And the Exterior Vizier with oversight over foreign affairs, and the military.

As to the military, rather than an outright army, just a TEP Militia would do. They should take the opportunity to undergo periodic training though. An inactive regional military is really useless. If it isn’t regularly doing something, there’ll be no interest and they won’t be there when you need them. Just keep it a soveriegnty based militia - set in place to enforce regional policies. And if you gather enough interested people, then you can consider offering their help to friendly regions when they have a need.

28

Just an idea that I had once… think of the People’s Republic of the Pacific’s legislature with the South Pacific’s delegate selection system.

— Begin quote from ____

Constitution of the East Pacifican Confederation

Preamble
Whereas the East Pacific is founded upon principles that recognise the importance of freedom and the rule of law:

Title I: On Sovereignty and the Rights of Citizens

Article 1

§1 The East Pacifican Confederation shall be the sole sovereign government of the East Pacific (hereafter referred to as ‘the region’) and the full successor government to all former regimes in the East Pacific.

§2 The East Pacifican Confederation (hereafter referred to as ‘the Confederation) shall be a democratic, secular, and social republic.  It shall base itself on the principle of government of, for, and by the people.

§3 The Confederation shall remain neutral in affairs outside of its sovereign space and shall take part in no alliance that might threaten this neutrality.

Article 2
The Confederation shall award full citizenship to any nation expressing a desire to do so, having been a Resident of the region for a week three days, having posted the forum in which the entities of the Confederation reside, and having declared their allegiance to this Constitution and East Pacifican Law.  Citizens of the Confederation shall be East Pacificans before any other allegiance.

Article 3
Honorary citizenship may also be awarded from time to time unto foreign citizens having done great works in or having contributed to the life of the East Pacific.  Such honorary citizenship, which shall be awarded at the discretion of the UN Delegate and confirmed by the majority of the legislature, carries all the rights and responsibilities of regular citizenship.

Article 4

§1 Sovereignty and the right of self-determination of all Nations shall be respected.  This shall include, but shall not be limited to the freedom of expression and a Nation’s control over their Endorsement power.

§2 No Nation being tried under East Pacifican Law shall be punished for a crime in a manner not prescribed by this Constitution or East Pacifican Law, be twice tried for the same offence, or be made to in any criminal case be a witness against itself.  The accused shall have a public trial before a neutral and impartial court of judicial officers and presumed innocent unless reasonably certain evidence proves guilt. Any counsel may represent the accused.

§3 Each Citizen of the Confederation shall be entitled to a vote elect representatives and participate in referendums according to as provided for by East Pacifican Law and this Constitution.  Each Citizen shall be entitled to equal treatment and protection of his or her right to vote.

§4 No entity of the Confederation shall have the power to suspend or disregard this Constitution or East Pacifican Law.  At the will of the citizens of this region, stated in a petition of a absolute simple majority of their number, the legislature, executive, or judiciary shall be dissolved, a measure in the legislature shall be called to a referendum, or this constitution shall be amended.  These decisions shall be as legally binding as if they had been voted in as legislature.

Title II: The United Nations Delegacy

Article 5
The United Nations Delegate shall be required to abide by this Constitution and East Pacifican Law.  In return, he or she will act as the head of state and government of the Confederation.  As such, the Delegate should represent the whole of the region and shall not act in any other capacity within the region or elsewhere whilst United Nations Delegate.

Article 6

§1 Residents of the East Pacific that are members of the United Nations shall select the United Nations Delegate via in-game endorsement.

§2 A clear formula shall be established for a candidate to declare his or her desire to become the United Nations Delegate and an official time period for the candidate to attain the necessary endorsements.

§3 Any candidate who has met the minimum criteria set forth in this constitution and garnered the necessary endorsements shall be recognised by the legislature as a successor to the incumbent.

Article 7
The actions of the Delegate regarding ejections and banning shall be subject to review by the judiciary, who may compel the Delegate to change a ruling by suspending his Forum powers.  However, the responsibility shall ultimately be that of the Residents of the East Pacific, by the power vested in them in aforementioned articles of this Constitution, to take electoral action against a Delegate that has committed an infraction.

Title III: The Legislature

Article 8
The legislature shall be known as the East Pacifican Congress (hereafter referred to as ‘the Congress’).

Article 9
The Congress shall be comprised of 1 congressperson for every 200 residents of the region.  They shall be elected by a majority vote of citizens from constituencies based on letter.  The minimum number of congresspersons shall be 5 persons; the maximum shall be 15 persons.  The Congress shall sit for 75 days, and then it will be dissolved for new elections.  The first five constituencies shall be defined as representing letters #-C, D-G, H-L, M-R, and S-Z.  The number and definition of these constituencies may only adjusted by subsequent law 5 citizen-elected congresspersons.  These 5 persons shall be elected on a preferential ballot every 75 days.

Article 10
The minimum number of votes to pass a measure in the Congress shall be an absolute majority of yeas over noes.

Article 11
The Congress shall elect a Speaker to oversee the voting and ensure that the Congress runs as closely as possible to Rules of Order.

Article 12
Before becoming law, a measure must be approved by the judiciary as constitutionally valid.  A 3/5 majority may overturn the judiciary’s decision that a law is not constitutionally valid.

Article 13
The Congress shall maintain an organised list of acting statutes that shall constitute the entirety of East Pacifican Law.  New legislation shall automatically override previous legislation.

Title IV: The Directorate

Article 14
The Directorate shall be an entity charged with the administration of the region, its security, and its cultural projects.

Article 15
The Departments comprising the Directorate shall be created by legislation in the Congress. The Directors shall be nominated by the Delegate and approved by the Congress be comprised of Congresspersons selected to perform said duties.  The Directorate shall, as such, dissolve with the Congress.

Title V: The Judiciary

Article 16
The judiciary of the East Pacifican Confederation shall be the East Pacifican Supreme Court of Justice (hereafter referred to as ‘the Supreme Court’).

Article 17
The Supreme Court shall be comprised of three Justices, who shall, by majority vote, decide on infractions of East Pacifican Law and rule on the constitutionality of laws.

Article 18
The Congress United Nations Delegate shall electappoint Justices for a term of 150 days.    This appointment shall be confirmed by a 3/5 majority of the Congress.  Their decision may be vetoed by the Delegate, but may be overridden by a 3/5 majority of the Congress voting in favour.

Title VI: Forum Affairs

Article 19
The entities of the Confederation shall choose a forum in which to reside.  The Forum Administrator shall be a citizen of the Confederation chosen by and answerable to the Congress.  All of the Forum Administrator’s actions shall be subject to the Congress’ review.

Article 20
The Forums Administrator shall be answerable for the actions of his or her Moderators whom he shall choose from among the citizens of the Confederation to serve at his or her pleasure.

Article 21
As long as any one person should remain the Forum Administrator, he or she shall not act in any other capacity within the Confederation.

[s]Title VII: Amending this Constitution

Article 22
This Constitution may be amended by a majority of 4/5 of the Congress voting in favour, as well as an absolute majority approval of the measure by a referendum of citizens.[/s]

— End quote

29

I’ll be plain. I’ve read carefully gnid’s post, while for now i’ve just skimmed dov’s. The reason being rather simple: being a legislative text, due to RL mental deformation, i’ll need far more time to express a judgement on Dov’s proposal. :wink:

Therefore, for now I’ll go on with my considerations on nid’s thoughts only.
[ul]
[li]I like the two GVs thing. Makes sense, definitely. Above all, the advantages are far bigger than the diasadvantages (like the uncertainty about who should be the successor
[li]Elections of the Delegate… I can live without them, honestly. Elections are a boring mess, in my experience.
[li]As a counterbalance, I’d like to see something like an impeachment rule, to grant the region the chance to fire an inactive Delegate/cabinet member. Nothing personal, Gnid, but having been forced to actually plot the downfall of my own Delegate because of his/her inactivity is something I’m not sure i’ll ever be able to stomach again
[li]Top level positions. Why haven’t i re-applied to join the MA, lately? Simple. Because the MA as it is right now is useless. There is no such a thing as a balance of powers. The Delegate does what s/he wants, with no chances for anyone to overrule him/her. Not even an unanimous parliament. How so? Invincible veto. That’s something I’d like to change, diminishing an absolute power no modern RL nation knows anymore
[/li][/ul]
That’s it, at least for now.

30

I came to TEP with a promise to help remake the government, so I guess it’s only fair that I actually read the above proposed constitution and make some comments. First, I would like to say that this is the very first NS constitution, proposed or otherwise, that I have read. Legalese is definitely not my area of interest in NS. And this was torturously long for me to read. But TEP is my interest in NS, so…

T1 A1 s1. Name. shrugs OK.

T1 A1 s2. The classification “democratic republic” is effectively impossible to maintain in NS. But I don’t know the technicalities of it. So, if you want to call it that, fine. Just be aware that you will catch crap from people who know it isn’t actually a democratic republic.

T1 A1 s3. Neutrality = Good. However, I would refrain from putting it in the constitution. A change in political stance may become necessary in a short time. It would be a shame to have to go through the inevitably time consuming task of changing the constitution, just to change political stance. Perhaps say something allowing the region to determine its own political philosophy in accordance to what is best for the region?

T1 A2 Citizenship should not have a time in residence requirement. Residency, yes. Residency for a week, no. 50% of all new nations will never log in again after the second day, if there is nothing to draw them in. Starting off by telling them they can’t participate till next week is not a good way to form a first impression.
Also, asking people to hold TEP allegiance above any other allegiance is nice on the surface, but it ignores the reality of NS. People will, for the most part, swear allegiance to TEP, but they are lying and everyone knows it. IMHO, it’s best not to ask for loyalty oaths that include <insert region> above all others. Asking for an oath to never bring harm to TEP by action or inaction is much better. The difference is subtle but important to those who take their oaths (even NS oaths) seriously.

T1 A3. I hate this. Period.

T1 A4 s1. Individual National Sovereignty = Good! However, nations do not have freedom of endorsement so long as there is a cap and swapping is controlled. By allowing citizenship in TEP without UN requirement, you are already giving sovereignty a big boost. There’s no need to fib about endorsements.

T1 A4 s2 Trials… an area I stay far, far away from. It seems ok to me.

T1 A4 s3. A vote on what? I vote for Pie and Thom Truelove for US President in 08!

T1 A4 s4. Are you saying simple majority? Or do you mean absolute majority?

— Begin quote from ____

An absolute majority is a voting system which usually requires that more than half of all the members of a group (not including those absent and those present but not voting) must vote in favour of a proposition in order for it to be passed. In practical terms, it may mean that abstention from voting could be equivalent to a no vote. Generally an absolute majority requires two thirds or more of those present to vote for the motion.

Absolute majority can be contrasted with simple majority which only requires a majority of those actually voting to approve a proposition for it to be enacted.

— End quote

I know it’s counter intuitive to make it easy to throw out a constitution or alter it, but the reality of NS today is inactivity. If you make it too difficult to change things, people get forced into “revolt” type situations. If people go nuts constantly altering the constitution, at least they are doing something.
Anytime an NS constitution says supermajority/absolute majority, I think it should be amended to simple majority. This document is no different.

TII A5 I like it. :smiley:

TII A6 s1. So… Those citizens of TEP who serve in the forum based gov’t, have no say in who is in the delegates seat? Don’t get me wrong, I love this idea. It’s a perfect reflection of the game’s mechanics. But I’m surprised to see such a thing proposed here and fear I misunderstand.

TII A6 s2 and s3. This seems like a good idea on the surface. So you’re saying it’s basically a free-for-all to get the delegacy as long as they say “Hey. I wanna be delegate.” Does the incumbent have the right to eject/ban or do they have to tart and campaign on the RMB like the challenger? Do they even have to be citizens? If this is the system TSP has used, I’m curious then about why TSP has stagnated. Heck I tink I’ll head over there now, post on the RMB and get tarting :wink:

I love this, but I am a change advocate (read: chaos agent). I don’t think you are intending it the way I’m reading it.

TII A7 I don’t get it. Doesn’t this negate what is in the previous article? The delegate can eject anyone but afterward the court can say it was bad, or regular citizens can… wait, I mean congress can…. Hmmm. No, I don’t get it at all. It seems quite TNPish. (That’s not a compliment in my world lol)

TIII A8 Name…shrugs OK.

TIII A9. Horrifying. I was part of this monstrous mistake in the PRP. I could write 10 pages on why it is a bad idea. The most important reasons are that it’s arbitrary, impersonal, unfriendly, and promotes inactivity. Forum activity will always be low in TEP because it is an RP region. You can’t afford to segregate things further.

TIII A10 OK. It caters to those who like to write legislation and therefore caters to activity. That is a good thing.

TIII A11 I favor just saying the speaker is in charge of making sure the blood is cleaned up after the melee :wink:

TIII A12 OK I guess. Could we just save a step and get the courts to look at it before it goes to vote? I don’t know why we have to stick to the inefficient way it works IRL. If we knew it was being called unconstitutional, then when votes were cast, it would be known what type of majority was needed.

TIII A13. OK (simple majority :P)

TIV A14 wait… the voting body is different from the people doing the work of the region? That seems impractical in this set up, IMO. It made sense in the PRP because the Provinces and “voting body” was for show and to keep the rabble occupied and isolated. Why not make the congress consist of the representatives from each appointed directorate along with a percentage determined number of elected “representatives of the people?”

TIV A15 I like appointment over election. But as I mentioned above, why not make your main legislative body a combination of the two?

TV A16 Name. OK.

TV A17 Impractical, but fair. I like it.

TV A18 Popularity contest winners as justices? Seeing as none of these posts will be contested elections anyway, I guess its ok. The positions will be difficult to fill in TEP. From my observations this region isn’t populated by policy wonks. But you could use this to entice some to move here.

TVI A19 I don’t like this. Some of your elected and/or appointed positions will require moderation rights in order to discharge their duties. I would leave this out completely.

TVII No. Redundant, excessive, stagnating. No. Leave this out too or simplify its requirements greatly.

31

I too, love the 2 GV idea. but I haven’t had a chance to sit down and think about the practicalities of it all.

32
33

Hum Interesting. xD.

Policy wonks? I refuse to admit that I am. XD.

Anyways, it is doubtful that I can respond to everything that I would like to (fear that I would be arrested xD) but I see the PROS and CONS of it all. Darkesia has some very good points, pointed out.

34

Thank you for you criticisms, Darkesia. I’ve integrated some of your recommendations and took the liberty to make some minor changes. As for those recommendations that I did not integrate:

  • 1§3: I admit that this is a Francoist-Feederite “wet dream,” but the desire is that citizens of the Confederation are most loyal to their feeder region. The biggest kicker is that if they turn out not to be, it can be used against them :smiley:

  • Title VI: The forum clause is designed to make the admin less powerful. It was largely in response to Twobit’s revolt in TNP and has no effect on moderators.

  • Note: Constitutional amendments are now covered in Rights of Citizens

Also, a note on the revised legislative proposal:

It would be a single ballot where the electors ranked the candidates 1 to 5. There would be a point value assigned to the ranking (ex. 5 for 1st choice). The points would then be added up and the people with the top five amount of points would become congresspersons. This method is called a Borda Count for you avid “Wikipedians.” If only 5 people applied by the deadline, they would become congresspersons by default.

P.S. You were spot-on with your interpretation of Title II (Delegacy)

35

I hope you don’t mind this pretty superficial critique, but I don’t like the adjective “East Pacifican”. It’s a little awkward, especially when used in official names. Also, adjectives aren’t often used in official names, i.e. “Parliament of Canada” or “President of the United States” as opposed to “Canadian Parliament”, or “American President”; the latter are considered less formal references.

I’m sorry I don’t have anything more substantial to contribute, but to be honest I don’t see any problem with the existing system or the proposed one. Despite having held positions in them I’ve never been very much into the non-RP side of things.

36

I’ve made a statement in TWP that I think you should read. I used TEP as an example.

It’s a bit depressing, and I’m sorry for that. However, it’s not too late. Please read it and openly discuss asking Gnid to actively remove some of your influence threats.

http://twp.nosync.org/index.php?act=ST&f=163&t=4844&st=0#entry95036

37

Let me add that I whole-heartedly agree.

There is no excuse for endorsement swapping. While those nations may not know the subtleties of Influence, they cannot not know what they are doing.

38

I agree.

39

being an ass-hole at NS politics, I’m lost… which influence-threats are you talking about, Dark?

40

— Begin quote from ____

being an ass-hole at NS politics, I’m lost… which influence-threats are you talking about, Dark?

— End quote

It works like this. I’m generalizing a bit.

Influence is not a statistic with no upper limit. There is a limited amount of Influence allotted to each region. This number is determined by the (total nation numbers) size of the region. This is divided up among the nations of the region according to their endorsements and age. UN nations are greatly favored in Influence allotment over non-UNs.

Whenever a nation besides the Delegate accumulates Influence, it diminishes the amount of Influence the Delegate may collect. In some cases this may be considered acceptable, like if the nation collecting Influence is an active government official or contributor to the forum. Such contributing nations may actually provide security (as with the West Pacific’s Guardians) as they reduce the amount of damage a potential hostile takeover could do.

Nations that do not participate and still collect large amounts of influence contribute nothing and hurt the Delegate and active members of their region. They are leeches who are stealing from their neighbors.